The supply of bitcoin increases only slowly towards its famous fixed limit and is now around 15m. The use of bitcoin as a means of payment is currently around $100m per month, or $1,200m a year. Were bitcoin just like ordinary money each bitcoin would be used around four times a year in making transactions. So we have 60m bitcoin payments supporting $1,200m worth of bitcoin transactions, which requires that each bitcoin is worth $20.
There’s always a “but” with such analysis. And the “but” in this case is that bitcoin could be worth its current value, but it would have to see a 1000-fold increase in its use as a form of payment.
“Of course that is possible; bitcoin currently supports only a tiny fraction of transactions,” the duo said. “But to assume so enormous an increase requires faith not only in the superior cost efficiency of the technology but also in the absence of any effective competition.”
In my simple world view, I see most of the coins and this discussion like a rush to buy AOL chat stock with Myspacecoin on the horizon. I guess I'll hold off until the facebookcoin is coming into play and get on that train for a while. [Reply]
Originally Posted by suzzer99:
US Dollars are accepted as US tax revenue, and backed by tanks and fighter jets. Both of those things are tangible.
Blockchain is an interesting technology that may revolutionize currency. Or not. But that still doesn't make BTC, or ETH or any other crypto token worth any particular intrinsic value. That's why there's nothing to stop them when they fall.
Ethereum chief warns cryptocurrencies could ‘drop to near-zero at any time’
By Karen Friar
Published: Feb 20, 2018 2:49 a.m. ET
The co-founder of Ethereum has put out a stark warning for crypto fans: Don’t bet the farm on cyberassets, because prices could “drop to near-zero” at any moment.
Vitalik Buterin took to Twitter over the weekend to caution people about digital currencies, which delivered blockbuster rises in 2017, before taking a beating at the start of this year.
“Reminder: Cryptocurrencies are still a new and hyper-volatile asset class, and could drop to near-zero at any time. Don’t put in more money than you can afford to lose,” the Russian-Canadian programmer said in his post Saturday.
“If you’re trying to figure out where to store your life savings, traditional assets are still your safest bet,” he said.
Over the course of 2017, the price of No. 1 crypto asset bitcoin rose about 1,400%, according to CoinDesk. Ethereum-based ether tokens, ranked second among cryprocurrencies by market cap, added an eye-popping 9,000% or so from their starting price of around $10.
But in mid-January, almost every one of the top 100 cryptocurrencies took a hammering after rumors of regulatory crackdowns spread fear among investors. Ethereum lost 20%, bitcoin dropped 18%, and ripple shed 30% of its value.
Despite that history, most of the digital diehards were having none of Buterin’s warning. On Twitter, some said he was exaggerating the risk, while others vowed to keep plunging in, and the jokers just said “too late” — though some did thank the Ethereum pioneer.
And back in December, the “Forbes 30 under 30” programmer fired off a tweetrant basically telling the crypto community to grow up.
“Need to differentiate between getting hundreds of billions of dollars of digital paper wealth sloshing around and actually achieving something meaningful for society,” he said in his pre-holiday message of noncheer.
Not that the crypto pioneer isn’t putting his digital money where his mouth is — in February, Buterin donated $2.4 million in ether to the SENS Research Foundation, a nonprofit for the treatment of age-related diseases.
And do the 20-something “boy genius” of crypto’s words sound familiar? He has an unlikely bedfellow in the chief economist of asset-managing giant Vanguard, who has said he sees “a decent probability” that the price of bitcoin “goes to zero.”
On Monday, bitcoin was holding above $11,000 with a rise of 3.5% to $11.133.48, while ether was up 3% at $953.49, according to CoinDesk.
Originally Posted by Eleazar:
What's out of context? The co-founder of one of the leading cryptos did say that cryptos could drop to near-zero at any time.
The point of the tweet was don’t invest more than you can afford to lose. [Reply]
Coinbase: We will send data on 13,000 users to IRS
Bitcoin startup says if concerned, “seek legal advice from an attorney promptly.”
CYRUS FARIVAR - 2/26/2018, 2:28 PM
After over a year of legal wrangling, Coinbase has now formally notified its customers that it will be complying with a court order and handing over the user data for about 13,000 of its customers to the Internal Revenue Service. The company, which is one of the world's largest Bitcoin exchanges, sent out an email to the affected users on Friday, February 23.
The case began back in November 2016 when the IRS went to a federal judge in San Francisco to enforce an initial order that would have required the company to hand over the data of all users who transacted on the site between 2013 and 2015 as part of a tax evasion investigation.
Coinbase resisted the IRS’ request in court. But by November 2017, after a hearing, US Magistrate Judge Jacqueline Scott Corley narrowed the request to only cover 13,000 particular individuals.
The San Francisco-based startup is now required to provide "taxpayer ID, name, birth date, address, and historical transaction records for certain higher-transacting customers during the 2013-2015 period."
Coinbase reminded its users that it is “unable to provide legal or tax advice.” The company also noted, “If you have concerns about this, we encourage you to seek legal advice from an attorney promptly. Coinbase expects to produce the information covered by the court’s order within 21 days.”
I've gone from 9 litecoins to 15 over the last month just buy selling them when they go up and buying them back when they go down. Not getting much price swing the last few days. [Reply]
Goldman-backed startup Circle buys major crypto exchange Poloniex
Jemima Kelly, Anna Irrera
5 MIN READ
LONDON/NEW YORK (Reuters) - Goldman Sachs-backed cryptocurrency startup Circle has acquired digital token exchange Poloniex, Circle said on Monday, as it aims to cement its position as one of the leading players in the booming market.
Neither of the Boston-based companies disclosed the value of the deal that gives Circle control of a marketplace it said sometimes has daily volumes of more than $2 billion, with around 70 different digital currencies and tokens traded.
Fortune magazine said the deal was worth $400 million, citing a person familiar with the matter.
“We’ve been really impressed with what they have been able to pull off,” Circle co-founder and CEO Jeremy Allaire said.
“They defined what originally people thought of as ‘altcoin’ exchanges,” he told Reuters. The term altcoin describes newer cryptocurrencies than the more established bitcoin and ether.
Circle operates an app-based peer-to-peer payment network using blockchain, the technology which first emerged as the system underpinning cryptocurrency bitcoin. It is also one of the leading players in the over-the-counter market for bitcoin trading, and is soon launching a retail-focused app for buying cryptocurrencies, Circle Invest.
One of the best-funded blockchain startups, its investors include Goldman Sachs Group Inc and Baidu Inc.
Circle’s founders said they had discussed the acquisition with all of their investors, as well as with regulators, and that the deal was closed on Friday.
The value of cryptocurrencies - as well as the number - has ballooned since the start of 2017, when they were worth around $17 billion, according to trade website Coinmarketcap, with their total value topping $800 billion in January before slipping to around $450 billion now.
There are now more than 1,500 digital currencies and tokens, Coinmarketcap said.
REGULATORY SCRUTINY
Poloniex is well-known among cryptocurrency investors because it offers trading on a wide range of digital coins, several of which have been issued through online fundraisers known as “initial coin offerings” (ICOs).
Regulators across the world have been intensifying their scrutiny of ICOs and cryptocurrency exchanges.
The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) in July warned that some of the coins issued in ICOs could be considered securities, meaning trading them would have to comply with federal securities laws.
“We intend to continue playing a leadership role when it comes to national and global regulatory frameworks for this space,” Circle co-founder Sean Neville told Reuters.
”That includes meeting with the SEC as well as obtaining all relevant licensing required for us to support our customers.”
Regulators are also keeping an eye on the anti-money laundering and know-your-customer (KYC) practices of cryptocurrency exchanges.
A Reuters investigation published in September showed that Poloniex had allowed some customers to trade cryptocurrencies and withdraw up to $2,000 worth of digital coins a day by providing only a name, an email address and a country.
Allaire said Poloniex had instituted full KYC checks for new customers, but he could not confirm the exchange had the identities of all existing clients.
“I’m not sure that 100 percent of prior clients have gone through all their identity verification requests. I know they have a huge backlog of clients in their KYC queues,” he said.
“But obviously now that we operate the company we’re going to ensure that the business is compliant in every way it needs to be.”
The exchange is not allowed to accept New York residents because it lacks a state license to operate a cryptocurrency exchange, but the Reuters investigation found two New York residents who had claimed that they lived elsewhere and were able to trade on Poloniex.
“Clearly, people can get around things like IP (internet protocol) restrictions, and other restrictions, and people do it all the time. People evade geo-blocking mechanisms, and it’s difficult to fully police. So it’s possible that some people have snuck through that, and that’s obviously something we take very seriously,” Allaire said.
Circle said that in the coming years, it expected to grow the Poloniex exchange out to include other non-crypto assets, such as physical goods and financial products such as derivatives.
“We look forward to bringing Circle’s experience to increase the scalability and reliability of our platform and operations,” Poloniex said in a statement on its website.
thisisbillgates[S] 7006 points an hour agox3
The main feature of crypto currencies is their anonymity. I don't think this is a good thing. The Governments ability to find money laundering and tax evasion and terrorist funding is a good thing. Right now crypto currencies are used for buying fentanyl and other drugs so it is a rare technology that has caused deaths in a fairly direct way. I think the speculative wave around ICOs and crypto currencies is super risky for those who go long. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Eleazar:
Coinbase: We will send data on 13,000 users to IRS
Bitcoin startup says if concerned, “seek legal advice from an attorney promptly.”
CYRUS FARIVAR - 2/26/2018, 2:28 PM
After over a year of legal wrangling, Coinbase has now formally notified its customers that it will be complying with a court order and handing over the user data for about 13,000 of its customers to the Internal Revenue Service. The company, which is one of the world's largest Bitcoin exchanges, sent out an email to the affected users on Friday, February 23.
The case began back in November 2016 when the IRS went to a federal judge in San Francisco to enforce an initial order that would have required the company to hand over the data of all users who transacted on the site between 2013 and 2015 as part of a tax evasion investigation.
Coinbase resisted the IRS’ request in court. But by November 2017, after a hearing, US Magistrate Judge Jacqueline Scott Corley narrowed the request to only cover 13,000 particular individuals.
The San Francisco-based startup is now required to provide "taxpayer ID, name, birth date, address, and historical transaction records for certain higher-transacting customers during the 2013-2015 period."
Coinbase reminded its users that it is “unable to provide legal or tax advice.” The company also noted, “If you have concerns about this, we encourage you to seek legal advice from an attorney promptly. Coinbase expects to produce the information covered by the court’s order within 21 days.”
