Andy Reid got depantsed in the Super Bowl by Bruce Arians.
Bruce Fucking Arians and Tom Fucking Brady.
Well, you see, Andy Reid is an offensive genius, and how dare we question Andy Reid's genius in not running the ball and not utilizing the screen pass in the face of an epically brutal pass rush, a patchwork offensive line and a QB with a hurt toe?
How dare we question his geniusness?
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Oh, and Spags? The "great Brady Killer"? They had his defense figured out by the 2nd quarter and he couldn't adjust it. He was Bob Sutton Jr. [Reply]
Originally Posted by FAX:
This thread thing is depressing on a thousand levels.
A castigartory whirlpool of mulct sucking the life out of whoever is unfortunate enough to open it.
FAX
I don't even know how I got sucked into this bullshit. This is precious time I could be spending in the Pat Mahomes, 49ers, or Bashaud Breeland threads.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
An equally old axiom is that you shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good.
Certainly, but in a sport where true success is measured in rings, and your team has done "good" a dozen times in 30 years without winning one, it becomes a line in the sand.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I mean lets say the Chiefs decide "nah, we don't want Alex" and they sign...I dunno...Fitzpatrick. Or draft Geno. Or...well really, do just about anything other than what they did.
Would they have been in better shape over the last 5 years? Over the next 5?
It's easy to have this conversation now - Mahomes is a Chief and hindsight is 20/20. If we are forced to evaluate the Alex Smith at face value, without the benefit of hindsight, their only a success to the fans that can't stand 2-14 seasons. For me, that's immaterial. A 2-14 season is no different than a 14-2 season if that 14-2 season ends in a 1st round playoff loss.
People don't like that perspective but it is what it is - I'm only here because of Mahomes and the reasonable chance to see a championship FINALLY in 35 years of being a fan. I actually care very little about Reid, Sutton, or any of the rest of it. It's all about Mahomes and a championship.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Gotta squint pretty hard to say that the Smith acquisition and the direction it took the franchise wasn't exactly what we needed then and going forward.
Again, you're squinting to peer into the past, knowing full well you have knowledge of the present. The only way we can have this conversation is because it resulted in drafting Mahomes. If it didn't (and there are literally thousands of permutations that could have ended with us NOT drafting him), the whole thing is a failure and people are wanting Reid fired immediately. [Reply]
Originally Posted by FAX:
You've made some serious allegations here, Mr. chiefzilla1501.
Very serious, indeed.
Let's look around the league at the number of "blown leads" and compare that number to Wally's resume. To start, how shall we define "blown leads"? 21 points? 14 points? 10? 3?
And how far back should we go? 10 years? 5? Wally's entire HC career?
Once we establish that, we can do the necessary research and figure out if this is an overblown narrative or factual evaluation. Deal?
FAX
I will look into it. Off the top of my head, 2018 wasn't bad except for Tennessee. 2017 I remember Atlanta, Oakland, Tennessee, pitt being brutal closings. And 2 of 3 playoff losses were historically big collapses. Countless other times we've been bailed out for wins by fortunate defensive turnovers.
What's more important is how it happens. Predictably our defense goes prevent. Typically our offense, even if dominant prior, rings together a string of 3 and outs. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Again, you're squinting to peer into the past, knowing full well you have knowledge of the present. The only way we can have this conversation is because it resulted in drafting Mahomes. If it didn't (and there are literally thousands of permutations that could have ended with us NOT drafting him), the whole thing is a failure and people are wanting Reid fired immediately.
Of course I'm using hindsight. That's exactly why I'm asking the question, though.
Because it's impossible to answer it without the benefit of hindsight. In real time all any of us can do is say what we THINK the answer is. Only time can prove us right one way or the other.
So now with the benefit of hindsight, can't we say that acquiring Smith was about the best possible outcome?
Watch golf at all? Look at is as perhaps peak Tiger vs. Bubba Watson or Phil Mickelson. Tiger never missed a fairway. Never missed a chip or a put. He just went out there and robotically assassinated the course. He was a terminator who made it look simple. Well peak Tiger was Belichick/Brady and we didn't really have that possibility that I can see. There was no easy path.
So Andy is Phil Mickelson. Lefty goes out there, looks at the course, takes his best shot and...."motherfucker I'm stuck behind a tree again!" He's not gonna chip backwards and hit another approach though. Nah; he's gonna hang sidways and try to blade one off the bark and 2/3 of the time he's gonne get up near a nice easy 9 iron and an up and down for par. He's gonna hit save shot after save shot after save shot until the next thing you know the dude wins another tournament.
Andy and co. haven't really hit the cleanest of shots every time - but there's an argument that they never really had a clean one to hit anyway. And I'll be damned if he hasn't made enough saves to have done alright to this point and sitting awfully well going forward. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
How the **** can you say the Titans game was his fault?
Tell me what he actually did wrong. He miss that fieldgoal? He drop the pass to Charles? He miss the deep shot to Wilson? he wasn't just trying to milk the clock there - he was trying to move the ball and his guys weren't executing. He didn't change his gameplan - he just didn't get a chance to use it because the defense couldn't get off the field. He called plays that should've generated at least 6 points, probably ten and possibly 13. Now if you want to criticize him for retaining Sutton I'll listen, but that's not a game-coach issue.
And Smith just can't handle the zone rush from Pittsburgh. We saw the night/day difference between how those guy QBs deal with that - Smith ran away from the pressure, Mahomes attacked it. And when Andy had a guy willing to attack it, you see what happens.
There's no way you can put those at his feet. I just don't see what he could've possibly done differently.
I remember thinking that entire 2nd half that Alex wasn’t going to get it done down the field despite Andy calling the plays. I wanted Andy to take the game out of Alex’s hands.
Designed screens, jet sweeps, run option etc. it just seemed like the Titans knew (how could they not?) that Alex was scared to take the deep shot. Twice he had clean pockets and just tried to run it.
We were at the TEN 44. We just needed one more first down and the clock was ours and a FG could be attempted to win.
It’s all water under the bridge, but man I could tell last year was hard for Andy. He really did burn out trying to figure out how to make Alex work. [Reply]
Originally Posted by dwwataz:
Did you watch the strip sack? If the hold wasn't called we're up 28-0. That was a pure momentum swing. The crowd, and the players themselves, instantly got back into the game. Regardless, he can't force his guys to cover better or to tackle. Did you notice, by chance, the TOP? Which is it dude? Keep airing it out and forcing our D to play 45 minutes a game, which will tire even elite defenses, or to run? He can't make the line run block better or Hunt, who led the league in rushing last year FYI, to find the gap.
This isn't a coaching issue, except maybe Sutton and our incessant prevent scheme, it's personnel. It's guys not executing. People bitch if we keep our foot on the gas "Golly gee Willigers Bobby Rae, why din't we run da clock out? Uh hee uh hee uh hue" or "God damnit Billy Jo, we dint payse an keep ur feets on dem peddles. Uh hee uh hee uh hue"
So the strip sack justifies running prevent to horrible results. And the offense going completely dry the entire second half? It is a reason but not an excuse. One thing if it were a one time deal. But this is the same pattern we saw against SD too and we can't pin that one on refs. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
I remember thinking that entire 2nd half that Alex wasn’t going to get it done down the field despite Andy calling the plays. I wanted Andy to take the game out of Alex’s hands.
Designed screens, jet sweeps, run option etc. it just seemed like the Titans knew (how could they not?) that Alex was scared to take the deep shot. Twice he had clean pockets and just tried to run it.
We were at the TEN 44. We just needed one more first down and the clock was ours and a FG could be attempted to win.
It’s all water under the bridge, but man I could tell last year was hard for Andy. He really did burn out trying to figure out how to make Alex work.
And Orson Charles got hit right between the 8 and the....fuck if I know, I assume it was an 8 and I'm not googling that assholes name because he might think I care if he's alive or dead. I don't.
Smith was hamburger but Reid didn't ask him to be more than that. He dialed up plays that worked. But to a man, that team fell apart.
Maybe the real complaint here isn't that Reid didn't manage the clock well (because that's a bad one) but rather that he isn't Tomlin. Maybe they just weren't mentally tough enough. Maybe the answer was that we needed a fire and brimstone type rather than a cerebral HC who had his head in the playsheet as the world burned.
THAT argument I hadn't considered yet and it's one I'd actually be inclined to listen to. It's a lot more interesting than "Why did he run the ball that one time instead of throw it deeeeeeeeeep!!!??" We finally got Clay past that shit and I don't feel inclined to teach anyone else. [Reply]
Nah, what he did was bring you Patrick Mahomes. Andy Reid was right. Everyone else was wrong.
Get out of here....
It was still Andy’s QB. His guy. Not another GM’s QB.
You can’t just go to your boss and say “well it’s not my fault. My employee just can’t get the job done.”
Your boss is gonna come right back and say “well who hired the motherfucker? Who trained them? They’ve been here 5 years, so why are they fucking up this badly?”
Andy has atoned for his sins with Alex in the biggest possible way. He deserves a metric fuck ton of praise for it. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t at fault for playoff losses before. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
And Orson Charles got hit right between the 8 and the....fuck if I know, I assume it was an 8 and I'm not googling that assholes name because he might think I care if he's alive or dead. I don't.
Smith was hamburger but Reid didn't ask him to be more than that. He dialed up plays that worked. But to a man, that team fell apart.
Maybe the real complaint here isn't that Reid didn't manage the clock well (because that's a bad one) but rather that he isn't Tomlin. Maybe they just weren't mentally tough enough. Maybe the answer was that we needed a fire and brimstone type rather than a cerebral HC who had his head in the playsheet as the world burned.
THAT argument I hadn't considered yet and it's one I'd actually be inclined to listen to. It's a lot more interesting than "Why did he run the ball that one time instead of throw it deeeeeeeeeep!!!??" We finally got Clay past that shit and I don't feel inclined to teach anyone else.
We sure seem to roll over and die after a game changing call more often then not. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Superturtle:
We sure seem to roll over and die after a game changing call more often then not.
Yeah, I had a bit of a eureeka moment there mid-post but didn't go too far down the rabbit hole with it because y'know what? Marty's squads rolled over and died after a lot of game-changing calls as well.
I'm not sure I'm completely sold on the idea because frankly, this isn't new to Reid. He and Marty are effectively polar opposites. Their approaches are diametrically opposed, their focuses are completely distinct. They couldn't be more different.
And both of their teams have had stuff like that happen.
Arrowheads built on top of a bunch of dead indians, man. It's the only answer I've got... [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
It was still Andy’s QB. His guy. Not another GM’s QB.
You can’t just go to your boss and say “well it’s not my fault. My employee just can’t get the job done.”
Your boss is gonna come right back and say “well who hired the mother****er? Who trained them? They’ve been here 5 years, so why are they ****ing up this badly?”
Andy has atoned for his sins with Alex in the biggest possible way. He deserves a metric **** ton of praise for it. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t at fault for playoff losses before.
What you can say is that he made the absolute best decision based on the options given.
The fact that he shipped Alex out for Mahomes is an indication that he in fact does know what he's looking at when evaluating QB's.
Geno Smith was a fail that im sure you were pinning for. Scored 1 for Reid.
Derrick Carr looks like a pussy. Score another for Reid.
There was a time we all wanted that shit QB Denver has. Score another for Reid.
You can say, "oh Alex this, Alex that". But wtf else was there that was a realistic option?
Alex Smith was a better QB than all the aforementioned names. And he replaced THAT guy with an even better player.
Yeah, im going with Reid knows wtf he's doing and was right all along.
You guys sit here and criticize Reid for bringing in a QB that stabilized this franchise while offering no solutions that would've worked BETTER. [Reply]
