Andy Reid got depantsed in the Super Bowl by Bruce Arians.
Bruce Fucking Arians and Tom Fucking Brady.
Well, you see, Andy Reid is an offensive genius, and how dare we question Andy Reid's genius in not running the ball and not utilizing the screen pass in the face of an epically brutal pass rush, a patchwork offensive line and a QB with a hurt toe?
How dare we question his geniusness?
__________________
Oh, and Spags? The "great Brady Killer"? They had his defense figured out by the 2nd quarter and he couldn't adjust it. He was Bob Sutton Jr. [Reply]
Originally Posted by fan4ever:
The best example I can think of is the way he handled the playoff game against New England. He let the clock wind down late in the fourth quarter despite the fact we needed to score TWICE...because "He didn't want Brady to have too much time on the clock." Master stroke.
Your 'best example' still requires absolute make-believe to fit your preconceived narrative.
No, he didn't say he wasn't hurrying because he wanted to make sure Brady had less time. He knew that if Brady got the ball back it was over either way.
What he said was that he knew they had to score twice and it was more important that they get the first score than it was that they go fast.
Now consider the team he's playing - the one at home with the best defensive head coach of the last...ever. And consider the team he's playing with. He didn't have Pat Mahomes. He didn't even have 2017 Alex Smith. He had 2015 Alex Smith who threw 0 touchdowns to WRs in 2014 and only threw 4 WR touchdowns to people who weren't Jeremy Maclin (2 to Wilson, 1 each to Conley and DAT). Finally, remember that Maclin was hurt. He was out there exclusively as a decoy because he screwed up his knee against Houston. Belichick knew that and bracketed the hell out of Kelce.
So its your position that Andy Reid should've gone bombs away with a gunshy QB who didn't have his favorite weapon and who's other favorite weapon was being bracketed against the smartest defensive mind in football over the last several decades? Think that would've worked out, do ya? They'd have punted within the first two minutes. But hey, they'd have gone fast and lost by 14 instead of 7 - good for them.
He was absolutely right - they needed two scores and they were going to have to recover an onside kick anyway. First and foremost, they needed to find a way to get score #1 and with the weapons he had and the situation he found himself, the ONLY reasonable way to do that was with the methodical approach he tried. And when the score happened, he had both a shot at the onside kick (failed) and STILL 3 timeouts that could've given him another shot had they bothered to cover Julian Edelman. But I guess that's his fault as well - a HoF quarterback found one of the most dangerous short yardage receivers in the league so Andy was clearly guilty of mismanaging the clock.
The nonsensical narrative that sprang up around that game required anyone actually buying it to absolutely turn their brain off to what the most likely outcomes were and how one should've gone about navigating that minefield.
And that's how this argument always goes around Reid. People just make stuff up and by God that's what he should've done. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Your 'best example' still requires absolute make-believe to fit your preconceived narrative.
No, he didn't say he wasn't hurrying because he wanted to make sure Brady had less time. He knew that if Brady got the ball back it was over either way.
What he said was that he knew they had to score twice and it was more important that they get the first score than it was that they go fast.
Now consider the team he's playing - the one at home with the best defensive head coach of the last...ever. And consider the team he's playing with. He didn't have Pat Mahomes. He didn't even have 2017 Alex Smith. He had 2015 Alex Smith who threw 0 touchdowns to WRs in 2014 and only threw 4 WR touchdowns to people who weren't Jeremy Maclin (2 to Wilson, 1 each to Conley and DAT). Finally, remember that Maclin was hurt. He was out there exclusively as a decoy because he screwed up his knee against Houston. Belichick knew that and bracketed the hell out of Kelce.
So its your position that Andy Reid should've gone bombs away with a gunshy QB who didn't have his favorite weapon and who's other favorite weapon was being bracketed against the smartest defensive mind in football over the last several decades? Think that would've worked out, do ya? They'd have punted within the first two minutes. But hey, they'd have gone fast and lost by 14 instead of 7 - good for them.
He was absolutely right - they needed two scores and they were going to have to recover an onside kick anyway. First and foremost, they needed to find a way to get score #1 and with the weapons he had and the situation he found himself, the ONLY reasonable way to do that was with the methodical approach he tried. And when the score happened, he had both a shot at the onside kick (failed) and STILL 3 timeouts that could've given him another shot had they bothered to cover Julian Edelman. But I guess that's his fault as well - a HoF quarterback found one of the most dangerous short yardage receivers in the league so Andy was clearly guilty of mismanaging the clock.
The nonsensical narrative that sprang up around that game required anyone actually buying it to absolutely turn their brain off to what the most likely outcomes were and how one should've gone about navigating that minefield.
And that's how this argument always goes around Reid. People just make stuff up and by God that's what he should've done.
Killin' it bro.
Like i said before. Reid's clockwork isn't usually the issue. Reid is playing chess with this shit while our fanbase is thinking checkers. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
It isn't one time. His team is NOTORIOUS for getting a lead, then altering his entire offensive and defensive gameplan into extreme "protect the lead" mode. Prevent defense. R2p2. An onslaught of quick passes and screens, and runs up the gut. Tell me if this sounds familiar. We lost big leads in Indy. In Pittsburgh. In San Diego this year. In Atlanta last year. We almost lost many more leads where we asked our defense to make huge stops at the end or cause critical turnovers in games that shouldn't have gotten that close.
Good grief. Every single damn person in this country except for a few people here recognize that Reid has flaws as a game manager. Don't sit here acting like this is just me. This was talked about WAY before he even became a chief. I'm hoping Reid gains enough confidence in mahomes that he won't resort to this. I'm optimistic he can change. But how can anyone not see that the guy is consistently bad at holding a lead?
:-)I don't know if people have short memories or rose colored glasses or are just total homers. I appreciate very much what Reid has done for this organization...it certainly has made the regular season more enjoyable...but like you, I've been waiting forever for more than that. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Who said he isn't good overall? Like I said, he's a brilliant coach and playcaller. He's the kind that can win you a lot of games which is better than being terrible. But he also has a very long history of making a big mistake in games that really matter.
No, he really doesn't.
He has a long history of making teams helmed by average quarterbacks look better than they are so when they run up against HoF caliber quarterbacks and lose, people assume it must be his fault. All the credit in the world to Todd Pederson for winning with a cast-off, but the vast majority of playoff games are simply won by the better signal caller. But because Reid hasn't bucked that trend, he must be a terrible game manager.
The fact that people think Donavan McNabb is a Super Bowl caliber quarterback is a glowing endorsement of Andy Reid and yet somehow the fact that he didn't win one is used against him. Reid made chicken salad out of chicken shit with that scattershot QB who couldn't hit an intermediate route to save his life, but because it was only chicken salad and not chicken kiev, people needed to find a way to blame it on Andy Reid. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
From where we were with Herm et al. to where we were with Reid and Alex was an incredible step in the right direction.
Again, that's your perspective but it's just not mine.
The Herm years, the 2-14 Pioli season aren't really any different than many of the seasons that I've seen since the mid-80's.
I want to watch a team that has a legit chance to win a Super Bowl. In that sense, none of the Alex Smith teams were any better than Herm's because none of them were winning it all.
Some fans take moral victories in making the playoffs and stuff like that but I just don't. Sorry. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Except that's not entirely true.
In the Charger game, at the same point where Alex Smith would have checked to a screen and made them punt, Mahomes hit Sausage on a wheel route for a TD.
It's never entirely true.
You always just go drive by drive and you can probably find something where the gameplan was identical but the execution faltered. The 2nd quarter in the Steelers game, for instance, is an example.
The wheel route to the flippin' fullback is another one. They get within 11 after a RRPP drive designed to eat clock and we're going bombs away to the FB to push it back to 18. Then after the Chargers score to bring it back to an 11 pt 4th quarter lead came Andy's Cardinal Sin -- He ran the ball on 2nd and 6. NOBODY EVER DOES THAT!!!!! It gets stuffed - shit happens. If he picks up as much as 2 yards your likelihood of success on 3rd is a lot higher. And the odds of him picking up 2 yards are damn good. But even on 3rd down he tried to pass the ball. He didn't abandon his gameplan and try to button it down - still went for the 1st. That's the horrifying play that Reid made - running on 2nd down and 6. What a stupid asshole.
They fumble, we score, we go up 18. The Chargers score to get it back to 11 and again - stupid braindead bastard ran the ball on first down. NOBODY DOES THAT UP 11 IN THE 4TH WITH THE CLOCK WINDING DOWN!! NOBODY!!!!11!!1
I mean sure, he passed on 2nd and 3rd, but what a jackass for running on 1st and taking his foot off the accelerator. And then up 2 scores with like a minute left on the clock he ran it three times to get the Charger to burn their timeouts and need to score 2 touchdowns in under a minute with no timeouts.
I tell you what, had the roles been reversed and Reid been tasked with scoring 2 touchdowns with no timeouts to close a 10 point lead in under a minute, the usual suspects would be sitting here chewing his ass for not having enough urgency. I mean how unreasonable of him to put the Chargers in a virtually impossible situation there!
In virtually every single one of these games you can just point to the damn drive charts and show how goddamn ridiculous the complaints are. People are emotional during the game and I get that, that's what cements in their head that "Andy obviously fucked up!!!" But they never take a step away AFTER the emotion subsides and look at what actually happened.
Reid's game/clock management in the Chargers game was absolutely fine. There just isn't an objective complaint that can be made about it apart from the fact that the defense didn't cover anyone. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Again, that's your perspective but it's just not mine.
The Herm years, the 2-14 Pioli season aren't really any different than many of the seasons that I've seen since the mid-80's.
I want to watch a team that has a legit chance to win a Super Bowl. In that sense, none of the Alex Smith teams were any better than Herm's because none of them were winning it all.
Some fans take moral victories in making the playoffs and stuff like that but I just don't. Sorry.
I'm not sure one gets to be a Super Bowl team without first establishing a culture of winning and having an outstanding head coach. Thanks to Reid, we now have both. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
They fired him at something like 14-2 because, IIRC, his kicker blew some games. Have they been 14-2 since? I honestly don't know, but I doubt it.
You think Marty was just magically unlucky even with a loaded offense? Or maybe just maybe even great coaches just find ways to lose big games. I am optimistic mahomes can help Reid overcome that. But I doubt there are many if anyone who thinks firing schottenheimer, despite all his successes and despite coaching an absolute dominant team on both sides of the ball in San Diego, was a bad idea.
Andy can fix this. Mahomes may give him reason to. But it first starts with admitting there's a problem.. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2:
18-pt halftime blown leads in the playoffs in the Super Bowl era:
- Andy Reid with Chiefs: 2
- Every other coach combined: 2
Not to mention the atrocious clock management against the Patriots and playing for the two point conversion.
The Colts game he absolutely deserves criticism for. But he deserves criticism for doing exactly what Chiefzilla said he SHOULD have done. His mistake there was to NOT starve the clock.
The Titans game has been litigated to death but frankly I have a hard time putting that one on Reid as well. The Titans offense and our porous run D completely killed the offenses ability to get the ball. I mean - you know they got three drives on offense in the 2nd half, right? 3. And Smith missed 2 plays that would've led to scores in those two drives, Butker missed an easy FG on the other. He got three drives with two blown by execution and he's takes shit for being the reason the offense didn't put up points.
The 'atrocious clock management' against the Patriots has ALWAYS been a bullshit argument made by people who simply refuse to pay attention to anything that was going on in that game.
He owns the Colts game - absolutely, unequivocally and without question. But it's hilarious to me that even the folks that finally get to put a feather in their cap about "Andy Reid: Bad Clock Manager" have no earthly idea how that feather ended up there. They'll argue against their own cause and then cite that stupid game.
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
I'm not sure one gets to be a Super Bowl team without first establishing a culture of winning and having an outstanding head coach. Thanks to Reid, we now have both.
