The Chiefs latest dynasty run was a direct product of the Tyreek trade. Now money is tight, draft resources are slim, and the young players from Veach's great recent drafts are getting to the age to be paid so will be leaving soon. And that's aside from the glaring need for a franchise LT.
Any chance we could get back what makes it worthwhile to give him up this offseason? [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
I’m all for it. Go find a LT and be done with it. Overspend whatever you gotta do
But I’ll be here to chuckle when it’s then “you can’t expect him to win with the defense playing like that”.
It’s all a shell game. More here is less there.
So if a LT gets him back to not looking at the rush and leaving clean pockets and having the opposing defense come into games saying “we wanna keep him in the pocket and make him play qb” go for it
So now we're at the point proper investment in LT means completely gutting the entire defense. I'll leave you to it as you seem like you have a bit of an ax to grind with Mahomes. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Veering pretty dangerously into "He just needs more weapons" territory, aren't we...
We have Run out here freaking out that Mahomes is becoming a game manager but simultaneously treating him as though that's what he is.
Again -- the greatest dynasty in team sports, if you count it as a single run, was the Brady/Belichick Patriots and they flat out did not do this shit. They did not go loony tunes catering to Tom Brady. They didn't scorch the earth with their defense so they could upgrade on Sebastian Volmer.
If your guy is on Mount Rushmore, he doesn't need you to burn the organization down around him.
Uh yes Bill absolutely “did that shit”. Did you all just get amnesia when remembering the Patriots dynasty?
Richard Seymour was a 3 time first team all-pro, 1 time 2nd team All-pro and 5 time pro bowler who was one of the key pieces of that defense. A future HOF.
Bill traded him when he was 29. And what did he do with the 1st rd pick he got for him? He drafted Nate Solder, who was their LT for like 8 years. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Uh yes Bill absolutely “did that shit”. Did you all just get amnesia when remembering the Patriots dynasty?
Richard Seymour was a 3 time first team all-pro, 1 time 2nd team All-pro and 5 time pro bowler who was one of the key pieces of that defense. A future HOF.
Bill traded him when he was 29. And what did he do with the 1st rd pick he got for him? He drafted Nate Solder, who was their LT for like 8 years.
He traded a 29-year old DT who played at an ungodly weight for a guy of his frame. Yeah, the comparisons to McDuffie are pretty much endless. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Went and got him a first round speed wr who seems to be pretty damm good at tracking the football
Can’t throw to him because reasons
Now it’s “get the LT” so we have 5 high end OL
Dunno seems weird
Mahomes has had 5 LT’s the last 2 years. When a QB doesn’t trust the LT and have a constant carousel of LT’s that are getting him hit all the time, it tends to make the QB see ghosts and bail clean pockets.
An average LT who can provide consistency isn’t asking for much [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Veering pretty dangerously into "He just needs more weapons" territory, aren't we...
We have Run out here freaking out that Mahomes is becoming a game manager but simultaneously treating him as though that's what he is.
Again -- the greatest dynasty in team sports, if you count it as a single run, was the Brady/Belichick Patriots and they flat out did not do this shit. They did not go loony tunes catering to Tom Brady. They didn't scorch the earth with their defense so they could upgrade on Sebastian Volmer.
If your guy is on Mount Rushmore, he doesn't need you to burn the organization down around him.
No at bare minimum he needs nfl level talent around him. That is a low bar we set and yet we haven’t hit it. 2-3 years ago our top few WRs were unrosterable. Juju, Mvs, mecole were all midseason cuts. Toney is better at strangling women than he is making an nfl roster. Nobody gonna want skyy and teams made no effort to get Justyn Ross of our ps. Now we have unrosterable LTs. Donovan smith wasn’t signed anywhere even though he wanted to and as a pure LT not even the worst team will pick up wanya. We’ve done a lot of things right but these are inexcusable mistakes. We’re not talking about average players we are talking about absolute liabilities out there.
Because of these talent issues, yeah… he probably needs a little more help to un**** him. At least for now. And while we can settle for average I think most of us are tired of the revolving door and just want this to be settled with a long term option finally. But at the very least, we need average and that seems to be too much to ask for. And we’re at a stage where some of us believe our focus needs to tilt back from defense to offense. Not a full swing, just a tilt. So from that perspective it makes sense to think bold (this proposal is obviously very very bold).
You’re right that it’s a damn miracle Reid has managed success anyway. But he shouldn’t have to. And mahomes shouldn’t have to. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch:
Apparently getting Mahomes some stability and competence at LT means burning the entire organization down now. Good fucking grief.
Looking to trade McDuffie, a 1st and the 66th pick for a middle-first LT is absolutely 'burning the organization down' yes.
Because what happens when THAT doesn't work. And there's, at BEST, a 50% chance that the OT you draft there becomes any sort of long-term standout.
We'll have the same people here doubling down on it. You have a thread saying "Trade whatever it takes..."
If the ONLY thing you're focusing on is one position because that one position makes your QBs job easier, and all other consequences appear immaterial, then yeah -- that's just setting PM up to be King of the Ashes. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Looking to trade McDuffie, a 1st and the 66th pick for a middle-first LT is absolutely 'burning the organization down' yes.
Because what happens when THAT doesn't work. And there's, at BEST, a 50% chance that the OT you draft there becomes any sort of long-term standout.
We'll have the same people here doubling down on it. You have a thread saying "Trade whatever it takes..."
If the ONLY thing you're focusing on is one position because that one position makes your QBs job easier, and all other consequences appear immaterial, then yeah -- that's just setting PM up to be King of the Ashes.
That's a fucking stupid idea. Forgot which thread we're in and that's on me. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Uh yes Bill absolutely “did that shit”. Did you all just get amnesia when remembering the Patriots dynasty?
Richard Seymour was a 3 time first team all-pro, 1 time 2nd team All-pro and 5 time pro bowler who was one of the key pieces of that defense. A future HOF.
Bill traded him when he was 29. And what did he do with the 1st rd pick he got for him? He drafted Nate Solder, who was their LT for like 8 years.
He traded Seymour looking for his THIRD contract as he entered his 30s for a 1st round pick two seasons later. They hadn't won a SB in 4 seasons at the time and wouldn't win another one for another SIX.
You're talking about trading a 24 year old CB for roughly the value of a mid-2nd. Coming off 3 straight SBs.
You willing to wait another 6 years for a SB like Belichick and Brady did?
Moreover, they didn't do it to appease Brady. The Patriots had Matt Light at LT when they traded Seymour. Light was a Pro Bowl OT who played for 3 more years AFTER that deal. Nick Kaczur started at RT for them. Then Vollmer.
They didn't even draft Solder until 2 seasons later in 2011. The Seymour deal had absolutely NOTHING to do with Tom Brady and everything to do with simply not wanting to pay Seymour into his 30s.
No, they're not analogous situations.
Man, if you thought you had something there, try again. That's an AWFUL comparison. Your efforts are going further and further downhill here.
You've gone 'round the bend with this shit. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
He traded a 29-year old DT who played at an ungodly weight for a guy of his frame. Yeah, the comparisons to McDuffie are pretty much endless.
It gets worse.
It gets WAY worse.
Either Run didn't do his homework or he's hiding the ball. Poorly. That post is worse than his idea to begin with.
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Mahomes has had 5 LT’s the last 2 years. When a QB doesn’t trust the LT and have a constant carousel of LT’s that are getting him hit all the time, it tends to make the QB see ghosts and bail clean pockets.
An average LT who can provide consistency isn’t asking for much
"And I'm willing to give up 70% of our draft capital AND our best defensive player who's presently on a HoF career track for it...
Are you even hearing yourself right now?
"I'm not asking for much...but I'll pay the world for it. And nothing else matters" [Reply]
And goddamn, I really hope this season has permanently dispelled the notion that you can just hand Spagnuolo a box of scraps and he'll make it work in the CB room. Defense fucking cratered once Watson went out and the back end depth is really quite fucking rotten. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Looking to trade McDuffie, a 1st and the 66th pick for a middle-first LT is absolutely 'burning the organization down' yes.
Because what happens when THAT doesn't work. And there's, at BEST, a 50% chance that the OT you draft there becomes any sort of long-term standout.
We'll have the same people here doubling down on it. You have a thread saying "Trade whatever it takes..."
If the ONLY thing you're focusing on is one position because that one position makes your QBs job easier, and all other consequences appear immaterial, then yeah -- that's just setting PM up to be King of the Ashes.
it’s not because mahomes needs to be coddled with shiny new toys. It is a recognition that even finding an average tackle will be difficult - our alternatives are to either get a LT with an even higher bust percentage or realistically playing it safe and wildly overpay for an average LT and end up being stuck with him for 4-5 years. Those options are our alternatives to taking a cheap “50% bust” rate draft pick. It’s the same argument that has qb starved teams punting on the qb decision repeatedly or giving up the moon and the stars for Alex smith and Matt cassel.
I get it that there are some overly bold proposals out there. But I think the more relevant discussion is how bold do you want to get. Understandable to mark mcduffie as untouchable. But it’s worth acknowledging he’s really our only chip we have to go big and bold. But at the very least we can reject this nonsense narrative that mahomes just needs to deal with it and all he needs to do is power through it. Doing nothing at all at LT and ending up in the same place as next year, at bare minimum, is unacceptable. The team finding ways to work around it is not justification [Reply]