The Chiefs latest dynasty run was a direct product of the Tyreek trade. Now money is tight, draft resources are slim, and the young players from Veach's great recent drafts are getting to the age to be paid so will be leaving soon. And that's aside from the glaring need for a franchise LT.
Any chance we could get back what makes it worthwhile to give him up this offseason? [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
It’s not a matter of money, but it is a side benefit if we were to make a blockbuster trade. Losing him gives you the cap space to add another veteran. So you’re not just trading him for picks (I get that it’s more complicated because he’s still on rookie contract).
It’s more about positional value. We’ve had tremendous success losing DBs and finding them even with our draft position. We havent figured out how to do that at LT yet. For many years we had shit QBs and we insisted that we draft guys like geno even if they came from underwhelming draft classes. It took a big and bold move to finally get out of our draft spot to pick a qb of the future after decades of trying.
Again, I’m not supporting this move. I’m just saying it’s not the craziest idea if you have confidence to get a guy you really like at a position we’ve otherwise struggled to figure out
You have to also figure in positional value when trading McDuffie for a LT. Good left tackles are worth way more than a top flight CB. Even McDuffie doesn't bring enough back in a trade to make it worth it. He's looking for a second contract, not his third. [Reply]
I kind of see this like the titans when they were making the afc championship game behind Derrick Henry and Tannehill. If that were us would we get cold feet on an aggressive move at qb just because it was a bad qb class? I think we’d know that in a world where teams never let great QBs go and it’s incredibly difficult to find a good qb in the late first, you gotta make a bold move. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
You have to also figure in positional value when trading McDuffie for a LT. Good left tackles are worth way more than a top flight CB. Even McDuffie doesn't bring enough back in a trade to make it worth it. He's looking for a second contract, not his third.
Are they worth way more though? The average salary for the top 5 best paid LTs is $24.81m and the average salary for the top 5 best paid CBs is $21.89m. In fact the salaries below show that McDuffie is in line to be paid more than a good left tackle.
Originally Posted by Womble:
Are they worth way more though? The average salary for the top 5 best paid LTs is $24.81m and the average salary for the top 5 best paid CBs is $21.89m. In fact the salaries below show that McDuffie is in line to be paid more than a good left tackle.
It's not about dollar cost, it's about draft pick compensation. To trade away a player of McDuffie's caliber, you need to get Tyreek-like compensation back, not Sneed-like compensation. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
We’re doing a lot of talking around the fact that the qb just needs to play better
The qb will play better when we give him the pieces to succeed. He needs time, patience and the one thing we’ve sorely been lacking… consistency [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
The qb will play better when we give him the pieces to succeed. He needs time, patience and the one thing we’ve sorely been lacking… consistency
That’s fine. Go for it.
He needs a lot of the things Kirk cousins seems to need. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
We’re doing a lot of talking around the fact that the qb just needs to play better
Veering pretty dangerously into "He just needs more weapons" territory, aren't we...
We have Run out here freaking out that Mahomes is becoming a game manager but simultaneously treating him as though that's what he is.
Again -- the greatest dynasty in team sports, if you count it as a single run, was the Brady/Belichick Patriots and they flat out did not do this shit. They did not go loony tunes catering to Tom Brady. They didn't scorch the earth with their defense so they could upgrade on Sebastian Volmer.
If your guy is on Mount Rushmore, he doesn't need you to burn the organization down around him. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Veering pretty dangerously into "He just needs more weapons" territory, aren't we...
We have Run out here freaking out that Mahomes is becoming a game manager but simultaneously treating him as though that's what he is.
Again -- the greatest dynasty in team sports, if you count it as a single run, was the Brady/Belichick Patriots and they flat out did not do this shit. They did not go loony tunes catering to Tom Brady. They didn't scorch the earth with their defense so they could upgrade on Sebastian Volmer.
If your guy is on Mount Rushmore, he doesn't need you to burn the organization down around him.
Went and got him a first round speed wr who seems to be pretty damm good at tracking the football
Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch:
Apparently getting Mahomes some stability and competence at LT means burning the entire organization down now. Good fucking grief.
They just put in possibly the worst offensive performance in SB history.
Overreaction Planet is ragier than John Rocker right now. [Reply]
I’m all for it. Go find a LT and be done with it. Overspend whatever you gotta do
But I’ll be here to chuckle when it’s then “you can’t expect him to win with the defense playing like that”.
It’s all a shell game. More here is less there.
So if a LT gets him back to not looking at the rush and leaving clean pockets and having the opposing defense come into games saying “we wanna keep him in the pocket and make him play qb” go for it [Reply]
Originally Posted by Womble:
Are they worth way more though? The average salary for the top 5 best paid LTs is $24.81m and the average salary for the top 5 best paid CBs is $21.89m. In fact the salaries below show that McDuffie is in line to be paid more than a good left tackle.
I do actually think CBs are undervalued on the market at the moment.
That was the case with IOL for a bit -- when pass rushing interior lineman were getting BANK but the guys tasked with stopping them weren't. Now you have WRs getting paid $35 million at the top of the market but CBs are at $25 million.
There seems to be a disconnect in the market there. Sadly, we seemed content to close that gap with Creed and I think we'll probably regret that. If McDuffie has designs on same, we may have no choice but to move on from him.
But because he's (laughably) never made a pro bowl, he loses out on a pretty good chunk on his 5th year option (12.7 million instead of $17.1 for 1 PB, 20.4 for 2). That's a leverage point in LTC discussions. That would also likely serve to suppress his first year franchise # a bit.
So you have next season, his 5th year at about $12.7 million and a franchise figure that's probably at around 21 million. If you wanted to add 3 more years to that at $25 million per season, you'd be looking at a deal for 5 years, 108 million that would take him through age 29.
So say 5/$110 -- that's probably pretty fair. Surtain's 4/96 is gonna be his target but Surtain's 5th year option was $19.8 million and that would've boosted his franchise figure to about $24 million as well. He had another $12 million in 'guarantees' coming from the 5th year option and franchise tag over what McDuffie will have. Fair or not, it's negotiating leverage. [Reply]
