Chiefs ****The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread***** - Page 78

Originally Posted by Mecca:
If you are boosting the second you take the handoff, it's why you are sucking at running...the only plays that works on is like toss pitches.

I can run no problem. Always use the smaller shiftier backs. Big bulldozers like Henry are pretty much worthless unless you just spam dive and cut left.
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I'm excited to see him as a traditional runner too. I know he'll be a good pass catcher and in space, but he has really good vision. Getting that and getting him to realize not every play needs to be a big play, but those first down runs that can turn 2nd and 9 into 2nd and 5 for this offense is just gonna make it hell to deal with.

You get this offense in alot of 2nd and 3's and you're gonna end up scoring 50 pretty consistently.
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Originally Posted by Superturtle:
I can run no problem. Always use the smaller shiftier backs. Big bulldozers like Henry are pretty much worthless unless you just spam dive and cut left.

Yea it all depends how you play, running out of the gun will never be as effective on that game as it is in real life.
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Originally Posted by Mecca:
Yea it all depends how you play, running out of the gun will never be as effective on that game as it is in real life.

It's pretty shit AI. You can just call stretch and overload the side of the field you're running to with blockers in motion, and you're golden as long as you can get the edge. It's why the 49ers are used all the damn time in online. All 3 of their backs are around 90 or higher speed.
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Originally Posted by Superturtle:
It's pretty shit AI. You can just call stretch and overload the side of the field you're running to with blockers in motion, and you're golden as long as you can get the edge. It's why the 49ers are used all the damn time in online. All 3 of their backs are around 90 or higher speed.

Pretty much, the thing that frustrates me is I feel like the game is actually easier to play not in shotgun when the real world is completely the opposite.
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Originally Posted by O.city:
Hunt just played so much faster than he timed but he wasn't ever a blazing back. But thats fine.

Just like WR's get schemed up in this offense, backs do so much as well. Andy is just really talented as a play caller/schemer. He'll get guys into space. CEH will be successful just based on that, but then you add in his abilities and it should be a great fit.

Yeah, he knows how to get guys into those broken field areas where you have one guy in front of you and a few yards to either side of him. If you can put a back with average or better wheels there he can make a speed cut, the DB pretty much has to guess right or end up grabbing at air (like watching a goalie deal with a penalty kick). And with those kinds of cuts, average speed will still be good enough to get you 60+ yards before a DB tracks you down.

I think that's ultimately why they took him. Reid can make a running offense that works for Damien Williams; more zone-read, one cut kind of looks. He just doesn't want to. Given his druther's he'd stick with the stuff we were doing early in the season that worked nicely for McCoy but not so well for Williams.

It'll be interesting to see if they come out early w/ a scheme similar to what they were using w/ Shady or more geared towards maximizing Williams strengths. It'll tell us a lot about how they intend to utilize that timeshare.
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Yeah, he knows how to get guys into those broken field areas where you have one guy in front of you and a few yards to either side of him. If you can put a back with average or better wheels there he can make a speed cut, the DB pretty much has to guess right or end up grabbing at air (like watching a goalie deal with a penalty kick). And with those kinds of cuts, average speed will still be good enough to get you 60+ yards before a DB tracks you down.

I think that's ultimately why they took him. Reid can make a running offense that works for Damien Williams; more zone-read, one cut kind of looks. He just doesn't want to. Given his druther's he'd stick with the stuff we were doing early in the season that worked nicely for McCoy but not so well for Williams.

It'll be interesting to see if they come out early w/ a scheme similar to what they were using w/ Shady or more geared towards maximizing Williams strengths. It'll tell us a lot about how they intend to utilize that timeshare.

I would be stunned if Williams isn't back to the role he was signed to play, 3rd down obvious passing down back because he's a good receiver and pass blocker.
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Originally Posted by Mecca:
I would be stunned if Williams isn't back to the role he was signed to play, 3rd down obvious passing down back because he's a good receiver and pass blocker.

But the thing is, he's also a pretty damn good runner in the right setup. I think he'd kill it in SF, for instance. He has good contact balance and great speed. His vision is lacking but if you cut down the number of options he has through scheme, you mitigate that issue somewhat.

And the NFL has become more and more a HR hitters league for RBs, IMO. Truly elite guys can go out there and be productive 5 yards at a time but the middle tiers earn their paychecks via chunk plays.

I kinda hate the idea of getting away from the stuff that has made Williams absolutely dominant in the post-season. A healthy Williams in the right system can be a 1600-1800 all-purpose yard back, IMO. He has those kinds of tools. But the problem is that you just can't tailor an offense to him w/ the kind of health history he has.

Just seems a waste to get away from him.
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
But the thing is, he's also a pretty damn good runner in the right setup. I think he'd kill it in SF, for instance. He has good contact balance and great speed. His vision is lacking but if you cut down the number of options he has through scheme, you mitigate that issue somewhat.

And the NFL has become more and more a HR hitters league for RBs, IMO. Truly elite guys can go out there and be productive 5 yards at a time but the middle tiers earn their paychecks via chunk plays.

I kinda hate the idea of getting away from the stuff that has made Williams absolutely dominant in the post-season. A healthy Williams in the right system can be a 1600-1800 all-purpose yard back, IMO. He has those kinds of tools. But the problem is that you just can't tailor an offense to him w/ the kind of health history he has.

Just seems a waste to get away from him.

I think you can combine them really. CEH can theoretically play some slot WR and you can do some 2 back stuff. There's plenty of carries and touches to go around.
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Originally Posted by O.city:
I think you can combine them really. CEH can theoretically play some slot WR and you can do some 2 back stuff. There's plenty of carries and touches to go around.

There was a lot of that in Pat�s offense at Texas Tech and you�d be hard pressed to find two better receiving backs on the same team than CEH/Williams. Hell, Washington is pretty damn good too.

Andy�s always adding new wrinkles. I fully expect it.
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
But the thing is, he's also a pretty damn good runner in the right setup. I think he'd kill it in SF, for instance. He has good contact balance and great speed. His vision is lacking but if you cut down the number of options he has through scheme, you mitigate that issue somewhat.

And the NFL has become more and more a HR hitters league for RBs, IMO. Truly elite guys can go out there and be productive 5 yards at a time but the middle tiers earn their paychecks via chunk plays.

I kinda hate the idea of getting away from the stuff that has made Williams absolutely dominant in the post-season. A healthy Williams in the right system can be a 1600-1800 all-purpose yard back, IMO. He has those kinds of tools. But the problem is that you just can't tailor an offense to him w/ the kind of health history he has.

Just seems a waste to get away from him.

Which is why I think we'll start the season with Damien as our #1 back.

Ideally CEH will assume that role over time (probably sooner rather than later due to D Will's injury history), but I see no reason to turn away from the hot hand so quickly.
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Originally Posted by O.city:
I think you can combine them really. CEH can theoretically play some slot WR and you can do some 2 back stuff. There's plenty of carries and touches to go around.

Yeah, he's a shitload smarter than I am so while I'm sitting here thinking "How can we utilize an outside zone system for Williams and an inside gap system for CEH?" Reid's just jotting shit on napkins that will somehow yield a hybrid zone/gap system that sets to raping faces.

Because we have a goddamn wizard running the show and a QB that removes any governor he's ever put on himself.

It's good to trust your coaching staff, man.
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Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
Which is why I think we'll start the season with Damien as our #1 back.

Ideally CEH will assume that role over time (probably sooner rather than later due to D Will's injury history), but I see no reason to turn away from the hot hand so quickly.

Yes, Williams will be the �starter�, but they didn�t draft a RB in the 1st round to not use him a ton.

Everybody wants to point to Hunt and Ware. Hunt was a 3rd round pick. The Seahawks are the only team I can think of recently that took at RB in the 1st round and didn�t give them RB1 level touches.
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Originally Posted by staylor26:
There was a lot of that in Pat�s offense at Texas Tech and you�d be hard pressed to find two better receiving backs on the same team than CEH/Williams. Hell, Washington is pretty damn good too.

Andy�s always adding new wrinkles. I fully expect it.

Don't forget Seals-Jones.

I mean you've got 2 RBs that can split out and 2 TEs who could both play the 'move TE' role. Oh yeah, and Tyreek played RB in college and Sammy is very possibly better in space than ALL of them.

Andy's getting near that mythical 'positionless football' status with his skill position players.

I bet the dude just gets a hard-on four or five times/day while sitting in his basement diagramming plays.
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
But the thing is, he's also a pretty damn good runner in the right setup. I think he'd kill it in SF, for instance. He has good contact balance and great speed. His vision is lacking but if you cut down the number of options he has through scheme, you mitigate that issue somewhat.

And the NFL has become more and more a HR hitters league for RBs, IMO. Truly elite guys can go out there and be productive 5 yards at a time but the middle tiers earn their paychecks via chunk plays.

I kinda hate the idea of getting away from the stuff that has made Williams absolutely dominant in the post-season. A healthy Williams in the right system can be a 1600-1800 all-purpose yard back, IMO. He has those kinds of tools. But the problem is that you just can't tailor an offense to him w/ the kind of health history he has.

Just seems a waste to get away from him.

This. All of this. Williams has elite speed for an RB and his homeruns were gamechanging this season. The criticism he has had since the Super Bowl and the overwhelming arguments that he was a downgrade from Hunt have felt a bit bizarre. For instance, everyone is quick to point out his vision and fumble against the Titans. But without Williams, we may not win against the Vikings, Chargers (@ Arrowhead) or the 49ers.

The dude just flat out fulfilled each responsibility he had in the Super Bowl. He was sent to chip Bosa or Ford (and once even had Ford as a single responsibility). His footwork was outstanding through the Super Bowl. Perhaps his play of the game wasn�t a run, but the blitz he picked up to give Mahomes a clean pocket to hit Sammy over Sheen. Remember how Larry Johnson�s missed block against the Cowboys and Freeman�s missed block against the Pats ended both teams seasons? Williams� blocking ability in those situations can�t be overstated.

I know injuries are a problem - but the dude doesn�t get the love on here he deserves. He has been stellar in every playoff game he�s played in for KC and deserves praise for it.
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