Originally Posted by tredadda:
Those who believe it will be better are banking on Clowney becoming an elite pass rusher. No player in my lifetime has gotten by more off of one play in college than that man. He's not a bad player, just nowhere as elite as some make him out to be.
He’s Alex Okafor when on a line that doesn’t have JJ Watt. [Reply]
Originally Posted by smithandrew051:
Anyone who wants to make this “the Cleveland Defense will be better this year” point needs to explain who will provide any pass rush outside of Garrett.
Please explain how their pass rush won’t be substantially worse without Vernon and Richardson.
Who on their DL anywhere on their depth chart is a threat as a pass rusher besides Garrett?
And if you tell me that they’ll get pressure with the blitz, then please go rewatch the Baltimore-KC game from last season. Tell me what happens when you need to blitz to get pressure on Mahomes.
They can be better without being elite. Their secondary went from trash to average. Clowney may not be a world beater but he will help the pass rush. Nobody is saying they'll be dominant. But with a solid efficient offense, an average defense can be dangerous. Again, we will win and win big, but I won't sugar coat what we're up against. [Reply]
I’d just like to say, this is a good roster, but not the insanely deep and talented one people keep saying it is. And if it is, I just don’t see it. Good running backs yes, good line yes, two good wideouts and some guys behind them. Tight ends should be better than they are imo. The defense is a defensive end,a corner and what looks like the capital of jagville. Am I missing something? [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
They can be better without being elite. Their secondary went from trash to average. Clowney may not be a world beater but he will help the pass rush. Nobody is saying they'll be dominant. But with a solid efficient offense, an average defense can be dangerous. Again, we will win and win big, but I won't sugar coat what we're up against.
Can you explain how Clowney will help the pass rush when he’s worse than the guys they lost along their DL? Specifically Vernon and Richardson. That’s a net negative for their pass rush. [Reply]
Originally Posted by smithandrew051:
Can you explain how Clowney will help the pass rush when he’s worse than the guys they lost along their DL? Specifically Vernon and Richardson. That’s a net negative for their pass rush.
He won't. That overpaid fat ass won't be doing shit against the Chiefs.
If anyone thinks the Browns will come in and beat us on Opening Day- they should put their money down on it. [Reply]
It would be one thing if the Browns just added Clowney to their rotation of pass rushers. Then yes, he could help improve their pass rush over last season.
The issue is that they lost the guys who were 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th on the team in sacks. Vernon, Richardson, and Clayborne have all been much more productive over the last two years than Clowney (which really isn’t saying much).
Sure they brought in Billings and Jackson, but neither of those guys bring much of a pass rush either.
This REALLY looks like it’s going to be a bottom 8-10 pass rush. They may well make the playoffs, but they won’t be real contenders if I’m right about this. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Dunerdr:
I’d just like to say, this is a good roster, but not the insanely deep and talented one people keep saying it is. And if it is, I just don’t see it. Good running backs yes, good line yes, two good wideouts and some guys behind them. Tight ends should be better than they are imo. The defense is a defensive end,a corner and what looks like the capital of jagville. Am I missing something?
Eternal pessimist. I think you are being way to critical. Pringle will be better than you give credit. Reed is a JAG? Fenton, Sneed, Hughes, Baker, Thornhill, Mathieu, Gay, Hitchens, Saunders are all just JAGs? Wtf are you smoking? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Phoneix:
Eternal pessimist. I think you are being way to critical. Pringle will be better than you give credit. Reed is a JAG? Fenton, Sneed, Hughes, Baker, Thornhill, Mathieu, Gay, Hitchens, Saunders are all just JAGs? Wtf are you smoking?
Think he was talking about Cleveland, not KC. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Phoneix:
Eternal pessimist. I think you are being way to critical. Pringle will be better than you give credit. Reed is a JAG? Fenton, Sneed, Hughes, Baker, Thornhill, Mathieu, Gay, Hitchens, Saunders are all just JAGs? Wtf are you smoking?
Clearly he was referring to the Browns, but how did Saunders make it into a list of productive non-JAG Chiefs players including Matheiu and Sneed? [Reply]
Originally Posted by smithandrew051:
I’ll try to make my point a little more clear.
It would be one thing if the Browns just added Clowney to their rotation of pass rushers. Then yes, he could help improve their pass rush over last season.
The issue is that they lost the guys who were 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th on the team in sacks. Vernon, Richardson, and Clayborne have all been much more productive over the last two years than Clowney (which really isn’t saying much).
Sure they brought in Billings and Jackson, but neither of those guys bring much of a pass rush either.
This REALLY looks like it’s going to be a bottom 8-10 pass rush. They may well make the playoffs, but they won’t be real contenders if I’m right about this.
Yeah, that's fair. The tackles are a loss. Clowney is an upgrade over Vernon who, as someone put it, is pretty much an okafor. My bigger point was that one of the better ways to improve a pass rush is to get better coverage and they're miles ahead of where they were last year in the secondary. The only concern you might have is that mahomes had mixed success against cover 3. Granted, the chargers and 49ers have way better players. This for a browns defense that doesn't need to dominate. They just need to support the browns offensive efficiency. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Yeah, that's fair. The tackles are a loss. Clowney is an upgrade over Vernon who, as someone put it, is pretty much an okafor. My bigger point was that one of the better ways to improve a pass rush is to get better coverage and they're miles ahead of where they were last year in the secondary. The only concern you might have is that mahomes had mixed success against cover 3. Granted, the chargers and 49ers have way better players. This for a browns defense that doesn't need to dominate. They just need to support the browns offensive efficiency.
Vernon had 9 sacks last year. Clowney had 0.
Sacks aren’t everything, but I have no idea how you could see Clowney as an upgrade at this stage of their careers. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Coochie liquor:
Think he was talking about Cleveland, not KC.
That is correct. This stooge must be drunk I listed 7 receivers in another thread implying that there’s a 3 way tie for the 6th and Powell who’s probably a lock as a draft pick. And he thinks my argument is that we’re only keeping 5 wideouts. [Reply]
As previously pointed out is several of the above posts: Baker Mayfield couldn't beat the Chiefs playing against Chad Henne for almost 2 whole quarters.
As I recall: Browns got the ball back with like 8 mins left, down 5, and in the most important of times, and with their "great running game" and explosive offense, managed to go like 12 yard in 4 minutes, and give the ball back to the Chiefs (who ran the rest of the time off the clock)......Baker Mayfield isn't coming into Arrowhead on opening day and beating the Chiefs, no more than Deshaun Watson was doing it with the Texans last year
As a sidebar: Everyone talks about the Dirty Dan hit at the goalline that caused the fumble, but how come nobody says anything about the exact same hit on Henne's 3rd down run at the end of the game.....always bothered me that (in my opinion), both hits were perfectly fine football plays, but if someone is going to complain about one, complain both ways.... [Reply]