I know trying to explain actual football concepts to some of you is fruitless, but I'll give it a go anyway.
Guess which QB is dead last in having their defense give up the most points allowed since Carr came into the league? Any other QB have an MVP level performance, and then have their HC insist on replacing the OC with a totally unproven guy who then proceeds to totally fuck up the offense?
Also, only Chiefs fans have a low opinion of Carr. About 20 teams in the NFL would kill to get Carr as their QB, and another 4-5 would be pleased to trade their starter for Carr.
Paying a top 10 QB $33MM/yr average for the next three years is an amazing deal for the Raiders. Leaves them with the flexibility to extend our good young players, and secures a QB that we couldn't replace and expect anything close to the same productivity.
Every argument y'all make about Carr equally applies to Stafford. Carr is just as good, if not better than Stafford and Carr now has the weapons needed to maximize his abilities.
Raiders Defense is much improved with the moves we've made so far. [Reply]
Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider:
I know trying to explain actual football concepts to some of you is fruitless, but I'll give it a go anyway.
Guess which QB is dead last in having their defense give up the most points allowed since Carr came into the league? Any other QB have an MVP level performance, and then have their HC insist on replacing the OC with a totally unproven guy who then proceeds to totally **** up the offense?
Also, only Chiefs fans have a low opinion of Carr. About 20 teams in the NFL would kill to get Carr as their QB, and another 4-5 would be pleased to trade their starter for Carr.
Paying a top 10 QB $33MM/yr average for the next three years is an amazing deal for the Raiders. Leaves them with the flexibility to extend our good young players, and secures a QB that we couldn't replace and expect anything close to the same productivity.
Every argument y'all make about Carr equally applies to Stafford. Carr is just as good, if not better than Stafford and Carr now has the weapons needed to maximize his abilities.
Raiders Defense is much improved with the moves we've made so far.
How delusional are you?
I'll give Carr credit regarding being a top 16 qb; but he can't touch Stafford; he's easily top 10...
Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider:
I know trying to explain actual football concepts to some of you is fruitless, but I'll give it a go anyway.
Guess which QB is dead last in having their defense give up the most points allowed since Carr came into the league? Any other QB have an MVP level performance, and then have their HC insist on replacing the OC with a totally unproven guy who then proceeds to totally fuck up the offense?
Also, only Chiefs fans have a low opinion of Carr. About 20 teams in the NFL would kill to get Carr as their QB, and another 4-5 would be pleased to trade their starter for Carr.
Paying a top 10 QB $33MM/yr average for the next three years is an amazing deal for the Raiders. Leaves them with the flexibility to extend our good young players, and secures a QB that we couldn't replace and expect anything close to the same productivity.
Every argument y'all make about Carr equally applies to Stafford. Carr is just as good, if not better than Stafford and Carr now has the weapons needed to maximize his abilities.
Raiders Defense is much improved with the moves we've made so far.
The defense argument is BS. Mahomes has had below average to terrible defenses in all four seasons as a starter and has never not won the division or reached overtime of the AFC title game. Really good QBs elevate their team to wins and playoff success without perfect situations around them.
Look, Carr is adequate. He’s fine. Kirk Cousins is fine. A lot of teams would love to have Kirk Cousins (though I’m not sure why) just like a lot of incompetent franchises would like to have Derek Carr over their shit QB that can’t even sell a minimum amount of tickets. But Derek Carr level QB play doesn’t win (“win” as in playoff games, not week 5 regular season games) unless you have an elite D and elite o-line/running game. Derek Carr has put the Raiders in QB purgatory for 8 years now, and the fan base simply puts blinders on to the truth that everything needs to be perfect for him to win because he isn’t good enough to elevate less than perfect rosters. Again, Derek Carr is fine. He’s not bad. He’s MUCH more Kirk Cousins that Matt Stafford. Both fool their fan bases into thinking they can win with something less than elite D and elite o-line/running game.
KC liked Alex Smith. He was fine. He could put up pretty good numbers and rack up some good regular season win totals. But unlike the Raiders’ front office/fan base, KC’s recognized that he wasn’t good enough to win anything without complete perfection around him, which isn’t realistically attainable. Good franchises are realistic about this and move on to try to find a guy who elevates.
Enjoy the next couple years of purgatory before the next roster tear-down!
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I can tell you guys believe this whole "Derek Carr: Elite" thing by how hard y'all are working to convince 'us' of it.
Like I said - y'all have fun with this one.
Because it's so extremely rare to see a fanbase try to talk themselves into overpaying for an average QB and then try to convince yourselves that he's a championship caliber guy. And when they do, it ALWAYS works out for them. Every time.
It's crazy...
The sad thing is you think what we just gave Carr is "elite" QB money. It's above average QB money, and while he's sitting around 7th best paid right now, as other guys get their extensions, he'll quickly drop to below 10th highest paid.
I don't see anyone stating Carr is elite. I certainly have not. He is a top 10 QB, which just isn't an elite guy. He is good enough to win with though if the supporting cast is good. Our skill players around Carr are the best in the division, and it isn't even close.
Our defense, on paper anyway, has drastically improved this off season. Especially if Graham lives up to his billing at DC. [Reply]
Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider:
The sad thing is you think what we just gave Carr is "elite" QB money. It's above average QB money, and while he's sitting around 7th best paid right now, as other guys get their extensions, he'll quickly drop to below 10th highest paid.
I don't see anyone stating Carr is elite. I certainly have not. He is a top 10 QB, which just isn't an elite guy. He is good enough to win with though if the supporting cast is good. Our skill players around Carr are the best in the division, and it isn't even close.
Our defense, on paper anyway, has drastically improved this off season. Especially if Graham lives up to his billing at DC.
Carr isn’t good enough to win (again, playoff games and beyond) with a “good” supporting cast. He needs elite, just like many other QBs need to win anything of significance. And no, a team with a bottom half o-line and middle of pack defense (despite two good pass rushers, though one old/declining) does not even come close to sufficing for what Carr needs, even with a very good set of weapons.
Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider:
The sad thing is you think what we just gave Carr is "elite" QB money. It's above average QB money, and while he's sitting around 7th best paid right now, as other guys get their extensions, he'll quickly drop to below 10th highest paid.
I don't see anyone stating Carr is elite. I certainly have not. He is a top 10 QB, which just isn't an elite guy. He is good enough to win with though if the supporting cast is good. Our skill players around Carr are the best in the division, and it isn't even close.
Our defense, on paper anyway, has drastically improved this off season. Especially if Graham lives up to his billing at DC.
Well, I admire the way Carr said that he only wanted to be a Raider. He told his agent that he did not want to play for anybody else. He said if that were to be the case, then he would just go play golf. Shows he's committed to that team. I think he's going to have a really good year. He's got a lot of weapons and I doubt Josh McDaniels is the same coach that he was in Dungver Hope so, but I don't think that's going to be the case. [Reply]
Originally Posted by austing24:
The defense argument is BS. Mahomes has had below average to terrible defenses in all four seasons as a starter and has never not won the division or reached overtime of the AFC title game. Really good QBs elevate their team to wins and playoff success without perfect situations around them.
Look, Carr is adequate. He’s fine. Kirk Cousins is fine. A lot of teams would love to have Kirk Cousins (though I’m not sure why) just like a lot of incompetent franchises would like to have Derek Carr over their shit QB that can’t even sell a minimum amount of tickets. But Derek Carr level QB play doesn’t win (“win” as in playoff games, not week 5 regular season games) unless you have an elite D and elite o-line/running game. Derek Carr has put the Raiders in QB purgatory for 8 years now, and the fan base simply puts blinders on to the truth that everything needs to be perfect for him to win because he isn’t good enough to elevate less than perfect rosters. Again, Derek Carr is fine. He’s not bad. He’s MUCH more Kirk Cousins that Matt Stafford. Both fool their fan bases into thinking they can win with something less than elite D and elite o-line/running game.
KC liked Alex Smith. He was fine. He could put up pretty good numbers and rack up some good regular season win totals. But unlike the Raiders’ front office/fan base, KC’s recognized that he wasn’t good enough to win anything without complete perfection around him, which isn’t realistically attainable. Good franchises are realistic about this and move on to try to find a guy who elevates.
Enjoy the next couple years of purgatory before the next roster tear-down!
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Not true. Drew Brees missed the playoffs at one point with the Saints four out of five years because his defense was bottom three in the league. Rodgers also has a losing record with defenses ranked 20th or lower.
Mahomes had a bad defense in 2018 (24th in points, 31st in yards, and 8th in turnovers),
In 2019, he had a good defense (hence the Super Bowl): (7th in points, 17th in yards, and 10th in turnovers)
2020: solid defense: (10th in points, 16th in yards, 10th in turnovers)
2021: Top ten in the two most important categories: (8th in points, 27th in yards, and 5th in turnovers)
48 out of 56 Super Bowl winners have had top 10 scoring defenses. Mahomes has had three such defenses in his career. Carr hasn't had a single defense finished better than 20th in that category!
The only bad defense Mahomes has had was the 2018 defense. And he had to post an all-time year to overcome that farce. Even then, it was still 8th in turnovers.
Carr has only ONCE had a defense finish top 10 in any category (#2 in turnovers in 2016).
Raiders PPG Allowed Rankings since Derek Carr was drafted
