One of the best WR prospects at the catch point and winning leverage mid-route. He consistently sets up defenders to put them on his back, locates the ball, and attacks it at the highest point.
Rashee Rice was drafted with pick 55 of round 2 in the 2023 draft class. He scored a 9.53 #RAS out of a possible 10.00. This ranked 145 out of 3062 WR from 1987 to 2023. https://t.co/lwD9tvVPvvpic.twitter.com/YjucxErSE1
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
My point is that while it's true that Rodgers struggled without Adams and Pat didn't struggle nearly as much without Tyreek, the truth is that Tyreek was never Pat's actual 1. Travis was.
Meanwhile, Rodgers true 1 was in fact D. Adams. Adams=Travis. Not Adams=Tyreek.
to make it more apples to apples, Pat would have to play a season without Travis, not Tyreek.
this is absolutely true, and the biggest reason why everyone saying we need a superstar receiver is missing the big picture. [Reply]
Originally Posted by saphojunkie:
this is absolutely true, and the biggest reason why everyone saying we need a superstar receiver is missing the big picture.
We don't 'need' a superstar WR. We need a solid possession vet WR, imo. I've consistently said this, but my words get twisted around every time. But I consistently said that we need/should get a Adam Thielen type, or a Corey Davis, more recently. Basically a better version of JJSS.
Anyway, we need a guy like that to force the defense to make some decisions about how they're going to defend us.
Midway through 2022, JJSS basically became invisible because defenses began paying a lot more man/press vs. KC, and JJSS couldn't beat his DBs. Neither could Skyy or anyone else for that matter. It became something of an issue until Andy started scheming plays for McKinnon more.
But that's a band aid, not a long-term solution. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
My point is that while it's true that Rodgers struggled without Adams and Pat didn't struggle nearly as much without Tyreek, the truth is that Tyreek was never Pat's actual 1. Travis was.
Meanwhile, Rodgers true 1 was in fact D. Adams. Adams=Travis. Not Adams=Tyreek.
to make it more apples to apples, Pat would have to play a season without Travis, not Tyreek.
But the tweet never calls Tyreek his #1. That's a strawman. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
We don't 'need' a superstar WR. We need a solid possession vet WR, imo. I've consistently said this, but my words get twisted around every time. But I consistently said that we need/should get a Adam Thielen type, or a Corey Davis, more recently. Basically a better version of JJSS.
Anyway, we need a guy like that to force the defense to make some decisions about how they're going to defend us.
Midway through 2022, JJSS basically became invisible because defenses began paying a lot more man/press vs. KC, and JJSS couldn't beat his DBs. Neither could Skyy or anyone else for that matter. It became something of an issue until Andy started scheming plays for McKinnon more. .
But that's a band aid, not a long-term solution.
Andy didn't really 'scheme' up Mckinnon, he's usually the outlet pass, and that's been there for YEARS. Pat just started taking it more often rather than forcing the downfield play.
It's not a scheme change. Occasionally there would be something drawn up, but mostly it was just the outlet pass. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Andy didn't really 'scheme' up Mckinnon, he's usually the outlet pass, and that's been there for YEARS. Pat just started taking it more often rather than forcing the downfield play.
It's not a scheme change. Occasionally there would be something drawn up, but mostly it was just the outlet pass.
Eh, there were more screens installed, McKinnon actually began running WR routes, like that skinny post vs. HOU (I think it was HOU).
Regardless at this point, JJSS stopped being as effective as he was in the first half of the season, and McKinnon became the consistent option instead.
And we know this is true, because JJSS' projection at about the 8 week mark was to exceed 1,200 yards and 4-5 TDs, but he went from averaging about 60 yds/gm to about 30.
And McKinnon wasn't on pace for 512 yards receiving/10 TDs through about the same number of weeks. His production increased about when JJSS decreased. And we didn't see a big jump in anyone else's numbers. McKinnon effectively was schemed to replace JJSS lack of production.
Okay well, the stats and the timeline seem to imply that. Obviously, I don't know exactly what Andy's real thoughts were. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Eh, there were more screens installed, McKinnon actually began running WR routes, like that skinny post vs. HOU (I think it was HOU).
Regardless at this point, JJSS stopped being as effective as he was in the first half of the season, and McKinnon became the consistent option instead.
And we know this is true, because JJSS' projection at about the 8 week mark was to exceed 1,200 yards and 4-5 TDs, but he went from averaging about 60 yds/gm to about 30.
And McKinnon wasn't on pace for 512 yards receiving/10 TDs through about the same number of weeks. His production increased about when JJSS decreased. And we didn't see a big jump in anyone else's numbers. McKinnon effectively was schemed to replace JJSS lack of production.
Okay well, the stats and the timeline seem to imply that. Obviously, I don't know exactly what Andy's real thoughts were.
Again, I think it's reasonable to figure the knee was a problem. But there's no reason to think McKinnon won't still be a useful weapon. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Again, I think it's reasonable to figure the knee was a problem. But there's no reason to think McKinnon won't still be a useful weapon.
Oh, I think McKinnon will still be effective. I just don't think we should reasonably expect him to post the same or greater numbers, that's all. Looking at his career numbers receiving, it's reasonable to expect a small drop overall, closer to his career average, that's all.
That said, we're probably going to need some other player to make some kind of jump to make that up. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Oh, I think McKinnon will still be effective. I just don't think we should reasonably expect him to post the same or greater numbers, that's all. Looking at his career numbers receiving, it's reasonable to expect a small drop overall, closer to his career average, that's all.
That said, we're probably going to need some other player to make some kind of jump to make that up.
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Somewhat misleading, in that Mahomes' number 1 receiver wasn't Tyreek, it was Travis. Take Kelce away, and Mahomes might not do as well. I doubt he'd have as large a drop-off as what happened with Rodgers, but Pat also has other advantages that Rodgers didn't have last season. Like Andy. And youth.
Really solid argument for our unwillingness to pay any other weapon more than Travis. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Couch-Potato:
Really solid argument for our unwillingness to pay any other weapon more than Travis.
Well, except for the fact that Travis is 34 this year. Might want to replace that production in the near future. Before he actually declines. Just a thought. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Well, except for the fact that Travis is 34 this year. Might want to replace that production in the near future. Before he actually declines. Just a thought.
They are trying. In the last two years theyve drafted two 2nd round receivers and traded for a former 1st rounder. Veach could give up 3 future 1st rounders for Marvin Harrison Jr next year and some ppl would still claim we arent doing enough to address receiver. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ForeverIowan:
They are trying. In the last two years theyve drafted two 2nd round receivers and traded for a former 1st rounder. Veach could give up 3 future 1st rounders for Marvin Harrison Jr next year and some ppl would still claim we arent doing enough to address receiver.
not counting Mecole in the second.
If one of those guys was DK Metcalf, Terry MacLaurin, or Tee Higgins, this isn't a conversation. If you want to critique the FO's ability to scout WR talent after round one, then fine. But the efforts have been made, and the results have been two Lombardi trophies. [Reply]
Moore didn’t really get big snap counts in the part of the season we’re talking about, save for the Chargers game, where he had multiple big catches on third down, including one where he made Derwin James look foolish.
He definitely had more chops vs man than done so far, but I think he can/will develop better feel for that.
I think Rice complements him well in that regard. He shows a good feel for working vs zone in his highlights, and Keysor’s film review showed that, too, if I recall correctly.
If your top 3 pass catchers feature one guy who is great against zone and man, one guy who has a good feel in zone, and one guy who can win vs man consistently, I think you’re in pretty fantastic shape. [Reply]
