Gay looked like a rock solid backer as does Bolton. Ingram I think will help a lot.
Again we need to take this on face value. Veach went all in as anyone with a rookie contract generational QB should.
He also made mistakes as a young GM. 2018 draft was a disaster. 2019 was okay but not great. 2020 looks promising in areas aside from Clyde and 2021 draft looks fantastic.
His last 2 drafts are showing up in a big way and that’s what this team needs [Reply]
Gay looked like a rock solid backer as does Bolton. Ingram I think will help a lot.
Again we need to take this on face value. Veach went all in as anyone with a rookie contract generational QB should.
He also made mistakes as a young GM. 2018 draft was a disaster. 2019 was okay but not great. 2020 looks promising in areas aside from Clyde and 2021 draft looks fantastic.
His last 2 drafts are showing up in a big way and that’s what this team needs
Think the jury is very much still out on Veach as a drafter. I think his later round picks have generally been good and his earlier ones pretty middling. This year Creed looks excellent and Bolton looks quality, so hard to quibble, but the positional value from those, I dunno.
Smith in R6 is ridiculously good. Kaindoh and Gray I don't think will offer anything, but who cares in those rounds. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KChiefs1:
I wonder why the Chiefs didn’t have Jonathan Taylor on their radar instead of CEH?
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It was a bad pick. Every GM makes them. I think he’s getting better though. His 2021 draft is looking pretty good with Humphrey Bolton and Smith. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KChiefs1:
Just watching them both, it’s not even close in talent. Taylor is far away better.
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IMO it was also that way in college. CEH flashed that year they won the national championship, but Taylor was solid for a lot longer. I was shocked when we went CEH instead of Taylor. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KChiefs1:
I wonder why the Chiefs didn’t have Jonathan Taylor on their radar instead of CEH?
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I think it was 2 things:
1) Fit in the system - CEH ran from the shotgun prolifically at LSU and demonstrated a really strong ability to pick/pop even in unconventional run schemes.
2) Veach was looking for someone who would 'take what was blocked' to stay ahead of the sticks and seemingly be an extremely strong asset in the short-yardage game. He appeared to be a more consistent runner than Taylor and that was more valued than Taylor's explosiveness.
Ultimately it was almost certainly the wrong pick. Taylor's demonstrated a skill-set that certainly seems like it could have easily translated to our run game. The system fit concerns were almost definitely ill-founded. But more critically, I just don't think Veach expected this level of 'sell-out' be defenses. He just didn't foresee defenses deciding they simply do not care if we stay ahead of the sticks. They'll welcome it.
It's why I disagree with the approach espoused in the LNBS thread. CEH simply does not scare teams and as a consequence, regardless of our willingness to run the ball more, you're not going to pull teams down to the line with CEH and Gore. They're just not explosive enough.
Taylor would've been. If we had Taylor instead of CEH, he's only one missed tackle from going for 50. That's just not a threat with CEH. He may make a guy miss and pick up 8 or 10, but that's just less scary than Hill busting deep for 60.
They drafted CEH expecting him to complement a dynamic passing attack. They simply didn't expect opposing defenses to decide they don't give a shit about a complementary weapon and show that in the end what we needed wasn't a complement to the passing offense, we needed a legit HR threat to keep that deep passing game viable.
I don't agree with taking a RB in the 1st round - just can't see a scenario where I ever will. But setting that aside, I actually understand what I think Veach's thought process was and I think it was a reasonable one. I knew teams would go into a 2-high shell (said it in PM's first season), but I never figured they'd do it in a legitimate bombshell style. It's insane. I've never seen anything like it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by JPH83:
I think this is it. Best case scenario is they surveyed the options, the possible targets at their draft pick etc. and decided Brown was the best out there - that may be right. He's been poor but possibly the best we could get.
The worst case scenario is they brought him and others in expecting them to be part of a unit that excels in the run game and opens that up. Given they brought in Thuney whose more in the technician/pass pro first mould I'd hope it's just the first scenario and they've not tried to be too clever.
That line is still gelling, too. I don't think we expected the chemistry this long to develop... [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I think it was 2 things:
1) Fit in the system - CEH ran from the shotgun prolifically at LSU and demonstrated a really strong ability to pick/pop even in unconventional run schemes.
2) Veach was looking for someone who would 'take what was blocked' to stay ahead of the sticks and seemingly be an extremely strong asset in the short-yardage game. He appeared to be a more consistent runner than Taylor and that was more valued than Taylor's explosiveness.
Ultimately it was almost certainly the wrong pick. Taylor's demonstrated a skill-set that certainly seems like it could have easily translated to our run game. The system fit concerns were almost definitely ill-founded. But more critically, I just don't think Veach expected this level of 'sell-out' be defenses. He just didn't foresee defenses deciding they simply do not care if we stay ahead of the sticks. They'll welcome it.
It's why I disagree with the approach espoused in the LNBS thread. CEH simply does not scare teams and as a consequence, regardless of our willingness to run the ball more, you're not going to pull teams down to the line with CEH and Gore. They're just not explosive enough.
Taylor would've been. If we had Taylor instead of CEH, he's only one missed tackle from going for 50. That's just not a threat with CEH. He may make a guy miss and pick up 8 or 10, but that's just less scary than Hill busting deep for 60.
They drafted CEH expecting him to complement a dynamic passing attack. They simply didn't expect opposing defenses to decide they don't give a shit about a complementary weapon and show that in the end what we needed wasn't a complement to the passing offense, we needed a legit HR threat to keep that deep passing game viable.
I don't agree with taking a RB in the 1st round - just can't see a scenario where I ever will. But setting that aside, I actually understand what I think Veach's thought process was and I think it was a reasonable one. I knew teams would go into a 2-high shell (said it in PM's first season), but I never figured they'd do it in a legitimate bombshell style. It's insane. I've never seen anything like it.
Me neither. The Giants were lining their safties up 25 yards back. You don't even see them on TV, but you see how far back they are in person. It's insane. They're not just daring Reid to run the ball...it's almost like they know he WON'T. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I think it was 2 things:
1) Fit in the system - CEH ran from the shotgun prolifically at LSU and demonstrated a really strong ability to pick/pop even in unconventional run schemes.
2) Veach was looking for someone who would 'take what was blocked' to stay ahead of the sticks and seemingly be an extremely strong asset in the short-yardage game. He appeared to be a more consistent runner than Taylor and that was more valued than Taylor's explosiveness.
Ultimately it was almost certainly the wrong pick. Taylor's demonstrated a skill-set that certainly seems like it could have easily translated to our run game. The system fit concerns were almost definitely ill-founded. But more critically, I just don't think Veach expected this level of 'sell-out' be defenses. He just didn't foresee defenses deciding they simply do not care if we stay ahead of the sticks. They'll welcome it.
It's why I disagree with the approach espoused in the LNBS thread. CEH simply does not scare teams and as a consequence, regardless of our willingness to run the ball more, you're not going to pull teams down to the line with CEH and Gore. They're just not explosive enough.
Taylor would've been. If we had Taylor instead of CEH, he's only one missed tackle from going for 50. That's just not a threat with CEH. He may make a guy miss and pick up 8 or 10, but that's just less scary than Hill busting deep for 60.
They drafted CEH expecting him to complement a dynamic passing attack. They simply didn't expect opposing defenses to decide they don't give a shit about a complementary weapon and show that in the end what we needed wasn't a complement to the passing offense, we needed a legit HR threat to keep that deep passing game viable.
I don't agree with taking a RB in the 1st round - just can't see a scenario where I ever will. But setting that aside, I actually understand what I think Veach's thought process was and I think it was a reasonable one. I knew teams would go into a 2-high shell (said it in PM's first season), but I never figured they'd do it in a legitimate bombshell style. It's insane. I've never seen anything like it.
I agree. I didn't really like the pick, then everyone was talking about this guy being a gamebreaker so the 5th year option at 32 doesn't sound dumb. Then he really sucks balls and it looks REALLY fucking bad.
I think if there was a Jamaal type I'd be down, but even then nobody thought Jamaal would be what Jamaal became or he'd have went in the first.
But yeah, that kind of weapon I'd be down with RB at 32.
At least we're not like the dumb fucking Giants who pick fucking Saquon Barkley (who is good, but has only not been hurt his rookie year) at #2 Overall (!) [Reply]
Originally Posted by rabblerouser:
Me neither. The Giants were lining their safties up 25 yards back. You don't even see them on TV, but you see how far back they are in person. It's insane. They're not just daring Reid to run the ball...it's almost like they know he WON'T.
It's not just that they're lining up 18-20 yards off the LOS. IT's that they're doing it and STILL dropping back when the ball is snapped.
And again - I don't think they care if Reid will run the football. They just don't fear CEH, Gore and Williams.
Teams saw the Buffalo game in 2020. They saw the Chiefs run and run and run and run some more. And dominate that game at the LOS and control the clock and harass the shit out of Josh Allen.
And but/for CEH's knee hitting the ground a half a heartbeat before the ball came out with 5 minutes left in the game, the Bills have the ball with a chance to take the lead despite getting pushed around the entire game.
Then when they played each other in the playoffs and the Bills went conventional, they got rolled.
Of the two approaches, it was pretty obvious which one was preferable.
Teams want the Chiefs doing what they did in that game against Buffalo last October. Because even if it works, they're probably looking at a 1-score game in the 4th quarter being backed by a lousy defense.
The runningbacks just aren't explosive enough to scare teams out of the shell. And while it seems somewhat intuitive now, there was no way to expect THIS kind of defensive approach from teams. Not to this extreme. [Reply]