Originally Posted by DomCasual:
Another way of putting it would be, "the guy who took the real Drew Brees when almost no one else wanted him and immediately turned him into Drew Brees."
Drew Brees played under Marty Schottenheimer with an elite RB :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
I know you're reeruned, so I'm going to try and explain things like I'm talking to a 5 year old.
Patrick Mahomes was a high upside low floor prospect.
Bo Nix is a high floor low upside prospect.
There's no comparison to be made between the two, so I don't understand why you morons continue to bring up Mahomes. Look at Mahomes scouting reports and then look at Nix. They are two totally different ends of the QB prospect spectrum.
Drew Brees is a HOF QB and the most accurate QB the NFL history. "Brees with legs" is a very high upside comparison and completely delusional.
Being as generous as possible, I think Zerlein's Tony Romo comparison is much more fair, and that's absolutely best case scenario.
Drew Brees was already several years into his NFL career at 24, so I don't know what the **** your re talking about with your "at this stage" of his career. His sophomore stats at Purdue are better than anything Nix did in his first 4 years. There's no comparison.
First, Drew Brees didn't become The Drew Brees until a coach with the last name of Payton decided to take a chance on him. At that point, he was a QB that had thrown almost 60 INTs in 4 years as a starter, and had so impressed the team he did it for that they offered him almost no guaranteed money. Injury was obviously a part of that. But look at his numbers in San Diego and tell me what was special about him.
Second, you're applying revisionist history to the perception of Patrick Mahomes. Is Patrick Mahomes a freak that can do some things on the field that arguably no other human has ever been able to do? Yeah, he is. But most of the pre and post-draft commentary I've seen about him focuses more on his negatives than potential positives. Good on the Chiefs, though. They called it right, and then took the initiative to go get him. History will rightfully laud them for that. But in their wildest dreams, even they didn't dream that Patrick Mahomes would do what he's done, at this stage of his career.
I know for a fact that you do not know the ingredients that are necessary to take a child that is drafted and turn him into a man that wins Super Bowls. Because if you did, you wouldn't be posting on ChiefsPlanet. As Garcia mentioned, the guy who coached the evolution of drew brees into Drew Brees is bullish on Bo Nix. I'll go with it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DomCasual:
You say I'm not a serious person. I poke my head in here about twice a year, and remember that this thread, for the most part, is not about serious discussion. Because I know that you aren't ignorant; so, you must just be disingenuous, right? Because an honest, intelligent person doesn't deliberately start a conversation with one premise ("upside"), and then switch, midstream, to another one ("You delusional fool. Drew Brees is on his way to Canton. Duh!")
The definition of upside is "promise, potential, best-case scenario." It isn't a prediction. It's the top end of a range.
I said that his upside is an more athletic version of Drew Brees. It's a fact that by almost any measurable, Bo Nix, at this stage, has been more successful than Drew Brees, at the same stage. And the strengths of his game are similar to what were considered the strengths of Brees' game, coming out of college - except Bo Nix is more athletic.
But then what happened with Drew Brees? He became Drew Brees. We don't know that Bo Nix will do something similar. The odds are against him, considering how few quarterbacks have that kind of career. You guys just take that simple concept and try to extrapolate something from it that was never said - hence, the statement that this is not a serious place.
The whole point is, again, that it's stupid to say, "Grade F! You guys just got the second coming of Jake Locker!" I can't speak for anyone else. But the point I made was that it was similarly stupid to say in 2017, "You dummies reached for Patrick Mahomes. He may as well have 'BUST' tattoo'd on his forehead."
Some of us think he’ll be a functional pro QB. I thought the mobile Derek Carr comp was pretty generous Plus Nix has Sean Payton while Carr had bottom of the barrel offensive coaching in Oakland, which makes a huge difference. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
Speaking of that, what was the consensus on the Orange Mane when Mahomes was drafted? And don't BS me. :-)
Well, since we unfortunately don't have the actual posts and threads from then, I am only guessing, based on my flawed memory (trust me on the flawed part). But my guess is that the consensus there was similar to what you all are saying about Bo Nix here. Not only are posters on football message boards not the best player personnel people, when they are posters on a rival's message board, they post with an obvious bias. [Reply]
Originally Posted by New World Order:
This shit is hilarious. Brees is a top 10 qb in NFL history. The odds that Nix becomes Brees or even better than Brees is extremely low.
Thank you for that, Captain Obvious. You summarized what I have said in every post I have made on the subject in this thread. I'm glad someone got it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Some of us think he’ll be a functional pro QB. I thought the mobile Derek Carr comp was pretty generous Plus Nix has Sean Payton while Carr had bottom of the barrel offensive coaching in Oakland, which makes a huge difference.
Okay, fair. But wouldn't that have been what you said about Drew Brees when he was drafted?
Any player - but especially a quarterback - has to catch lightning in a bottle to end up in Canton. You have to have the talent, brains, and work ethic. But then, you have to get the right coaches and team. And then you have to avoid injury. Those are a lot of checks and balances a player has to navigate. And even one of them going slightly wrong will short circuit things.
If you mark the day they are drafted as, say, T-minus-zero, all you can do is look at the ingredients they seem to have at that moment, and guess on the rest. How about this? How about I simply say, "So far, I feel good about how Bo Nix has come out of the blocks?" Because, it doesn't sound like you and I are saying anything all that different from each other. [Reply]
Originally Posted by New World Order:
Case Keenum, Luke Falk, Graham Harrell, Timmy Chang, Landry Jones are the top 5 completion % qbs in NCAA football history.
These guys went on to become Drew Brees
First of all, that is nowhere near being true. And second, who cares? No one has said that college completion percentage leads directly to NFL success. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DomCasual:
First of all, that is nowhere near being true. And second, who cares? No one has said that college completion percentage leads directly to NFL success.
Just a few posts ago...
Originally Posted by New World Order:
So basically, according to your Denver ilk, any qb who's accurate coming out of college could be a more athletic Drew Brees.
There must be a ton of Drew Brees's in the league.
Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe:
Bo Nix set the NCAA single season record for completion percentage.
Originally Posted by DomCasual:
First, Drew Brees didn't become The Drew Brees until a coach with the last name of Payton decided to take a chance on him. At that point, he was a QB that had thrown almost 60 INTs in 4 years as a starter, and had so impressed the team he did it for that they offered him almost no guaranteed money. Injury was obviously a part of that. But look at his numbers in San Diego and tell me what was special about him.
Second, you're applying revisionist history to the perception of Patrick Mahomes. Is Patrick Mahomes a freak that can do some things on the field that arguably no other human has ever been able to do? Yeah, he is. But most of the pre and post-draft commentary I've seen about him focuses more on his negatives than potential positives. Good on the Chiefs, though. They called it right, and then took the initiative to go get him. History will rightfully laud them for that. But in their wildest dreams, even they didn't dream that Patrick Mahomes would do what he's done, at this stage of his career.
I know for a fact that you do not know the ingredients that are necessary to take a child that is drafted and turn him into a man that wins Super Bowls. Because if you did, you wouldn't be posting on ChiefsPlanet. As Garcia mentioned, the guy who coached the evolution of drew brees into Drew Brees is bullish on Bo Nix. I'll go with it.
It's revisionist history to say that Mahomes the consensus on Mahomes was high ceiling low floor? And your reasoning for that is that most people focused on his negatives? You understand that you can say that a player has a high ceiling but that he's more likely to bust, correct?
You're literally too stupid to argue with, and absolutely clueless about Mahomes as a prospect. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DomCasual:
Okay, fair. But wouldn't that have been what you said about Drew Brees when he was drafted?
Any player - but especially a quarterback - has to catch lightning in a bottle to end up in Canton. You have to have the talent, brains, and work ethic. But then, you have to get the right coaches and team. And then you have to avoid injury. Those are a lot of checks and balances a player has to navigate. And even one of them going slightly wrong will short circuit things.
If you mark the day they are drafted as, say, T-minus-zero, all you can do is look at the ingredients they seem to have at that moment, and guess on the rest. How about this? How about I simply say, "So far, I feel good about how Bo Nix has come out of the blocks?" Because, it doesn't sound like you and I are saying anything all that different from each other.
What should worry you is that even if Bo Nix becomes Drew Brees, Sean Payton only won one SB (bountrygate!) and then wasted the rest of his career.
Bad news with Andy/Mahomes here for 6 more years and Herbert with Harbaugh. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
It's revisionist history to say that Mahomes the consensus on Mahomes was high ceiling low floor? And your reasoning for that is that most people focused on his negatives? You understand that you can say that a player has a high ceiling but that he's more likely to bust, correct?
You're literally too stupid to argue with, and absolutely clueless about Mahomes as a prospect.
When you read something, fully determined to take from it only what you want to take from it, you are (to use your words) "not a serious person." [Reply]
Originally Posted by DomCasual:
When you read something, fully determined to take from it only what you want to take from it, you are (to use your words) "not a serious person."
No, you just don't understand what words mean or how any of this works.
You're both an idiot in general, and you clearly don't know ball. Bad combination to try to have this back and forth with, and a total waste of my time. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
What should worry you is that even if Bo Nix becomes Drew Brees, Sean Payton only won one SB (bountrygate!) and then wasted the rest of his career.
Bad news with Andy/Mahomes here for 6 more years and Herbert with Harbaugh.
Okay - well, give me that, and I will take it.
The fact is, as you know, being in a division with an all-time great QB is far from ideal.
It's even less ideal when your QB is Trevor Siemian, Brock Osweiler, Case Keenum, etc. I'll gladly take Drew Brees; [Reply]
