The #Chiefs are hiring Steve Spagnuolo as their new defensive coordinator, sources say. The former #Giants DC and interim HC/#Rams HC began his NFL coaching career as an #Eagles assistant under Andy Reid. Now rejoins Big Red in KC.
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
There was a phrase uttered by a wise man who once posted here a lot (and still does, occasionally):
Better than bad does not = good.
There is precious little evidence that his scheme is better suited to stop a spread, especially since you keep conflating his old base defense with the common base defense run in the modern game.
And you know how I know you're just rehashing shit?
Bob Sutton's most common base defense in 2017 was basically the Packers' Nitro Package: 3 S and 3 CB. He wasn't even running the old Rex Ryan D the vast, vast majority of the time.
Unknown, young, and exciting doesn’t = good either
But you’re either missing my point entirely or just ignoring it. It doesn’t really matter who we hired because at the end of the day, no DC is going to have success without the talent. The bottom line is, if we give Spags the talent, he can get this defense to at least be average which is all we really need.
Hewwit and certainly Pagano would not have succeeded without talent either. You understand that, right?
Also, I’m fully aware that the 3-4 was hardly the base defense anymore.
What I’m referring to is all the man coverage, OLB’s dropping back too often (though that hasn’t been as big of a problem recently), the way his defense concedes to the run so often, etc. A lot of those things come from the 3-4 Ryan background, not that it’s an exact replica, but the fingerprints are there.
All that man coverage is good when you have the talent at all levels, but this scheme just isn’t going to work in today’s NFL without elite talent. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Bob Sutton was good when he had talent.
Every defense around the league that’s good is stocked with talent. Sure, some guys can make the defense better than they are talent wise when they’re playing average QBs and offenses.
To beat the elites you’ve gotta have elite talent and good coaching
Bob Sutton was good when he had talent... until Manning cracked the code on how to beat his unique pass rush packages.
After that point you didn't even need Manning or his elite weapons to beat Sutton's scheme, because Sutton was incapable of adjusting. Couldn't even fucking do it from game to game, quite honestly. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Unknown, young, and exciting doesn’t = good either
But you’re either missing my point entirely or just ignoring it. It doesn’t really matter who we hired because at the end of the day, no DC is going to have success without the talent. The bottom line is, if we give Spags the talent, he can get this defense to at least be average which is all we really need.
Hewwit and certainly Pagano would not have succeeded without talent either. You understand that right?
Also, I’m fully aware that the 3-4 was hardly the base defense anymore.
What I’m referring to is all the man coverage, OLB’s dropping back too often (though that hasn’t been as big of a problem recently), the way his defense concedes to the run so often, etc.
All that man coverage is good when you have the talent at all levels, but this scheme just isn’t going to work in today’s NFL without elite talent.
I've probably been the most vocal proponent on here of the fact that defensive coordinators can generally only fuck things up. We certainly don't disagree that the Chiefs D is lacking in talent and that talent trumps scheming when it comes to defense (to an extent).
Also, if you're saying that if you give Spags the talent he can get the D to average, then you're also ignoring the fact that Sutton did the same thing (and beyond) with a more talented Chiefs defense. And given that, is the problem really the coordinator, or the personnel department? [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
Bob Sutton was good when he had talent... until Manning cracked the code on how to beat his unique pass rush packages.
After that point you didn't even need Manning or his elite weapons to beat Sutton's scheme, because Sutton was incapable of adjusting. Couldn't even fucking do it from game to game, quite honestly.
2015 Chiefs were third in points and 7th in yards. Given that was the year they held Manning to a 0.0 passer rating, it was obviously after Manning cracked the code (because he wasn't washed before that season). But if Manning cracked the code and Sutton was unable to adjust, why was the D so good that year? [Reply]
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
I've probably been the most vocal proponent on here of the fact that defensive coordinators can generally only fuck things up. We certainly don't disagree that the Chiefs D is lacking in talent and that talent trumps scheming when it comes to defense (to an extent).
Also, if you're saying that if you give Spags the talent he can get the D to average, then you're also ignoring the fact that Sutton did the same thing (and beyond) with a more talented Chiefs defense. And given that, is the problem really the coordinator, or the personnel department?
I think it’s been pretty obvious the talent is the problem going back to last year, last offseason, and early on this year, but after yet another playoff loss due to the defense it’s really hard not to say Sutton has played a role in things getting this bad.
Also, with Ford, Houston, and Jones this defense shouldn’t have been THAT bad. Especially when you consider Hitchens and Fuller not looking anything like the players they were in 2017.
We have to be one of the few defenses in history to have that many sacks and be that bad. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
I think it’s been pretty obvious the talent is the problem going back to last year, last offseason, and early on this year, but after yet another playoff loss due to the defense it’s really hard not to say Sutton has played a role in things getting this bad.
Also, with Ford, Houston, and Jones this defense shouldn’t have been THAT bad. Especially when you consider Hitchens and Fuller not looking anything like the players they were in 2017.
We have to be one of the few defenses in history to have that many sacks and be that bad.
They were starting Orlando Scandrick for a long period of time. Yeah it was a deserving status. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ChiefoftheKeyboard:
And if we're talking college DC's.. Venables was the only realistic option. Still leaving you with a guy with no NFL experience coaching guys 8-10 years older than what he is used to.
Has Venables ever proven he can coach a good defense when the roster isn't filled top to bottom with four and five star players? Any slapdick can coach when you have superior talent (see: Goonther). If you were going to go the college route, I would rather have someone that can consistently put out a decent defense with average players and adjust to the talent on hand. [Reply]
The big thing now is they've got to find a very capable MLB so the new band-aided together Defense can show some noticable improvement early.
Why are you goons still talking about Venables. They had a better chance of getting Kris Richard to come in than landing him. It was never even a starter. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BryanBusby:
Yeah it was mostly Sutton.
The big thing now is they've got to find a very capable MLB so the new band-aided together Defense can show some noticable improvement early.
Why are you goons still talking about Venables. They had a better chance of getting Kris Richard to come in than landing him. It was never even a starter.
Seems like a lot of people think Hitchens would be the MLB.
I get it because the SLB in a 4-3 under is more like a 3-4 OLB. If they put Houston there, DOD at WLB and Hitchen at MLB that would make sense. [Reply]