Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
He might. He might not. I always said when the league made it damn near impossible to hit the QB that the Chiefs might be a winner again. And here we are.
He's only started 5 years and has the same number of SBs as Elway
You still have 10 more years to endure :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by kcgreene:
And yet Chandler's statline is more desirable than Elways when controlled for the same coach.
If there's anything I've learned from this, I respect that ratface Shanahan a lot more than I did 3 hours ago, but compared to other QBs under Dan Reeves system, Elway was an inferior quarterback to them. Wouldn't you think such a "Transcendent" Quarterback would have better stats in a similar system? I mean, this isn't even HoF talent we're talking about here. When controlled for system, he was producing worse than Chris Chandler and Craig Morton.
I'm now entirely convinced. Shanahan and Davis won those Super Bowls. Horseface was just along for the ride.
But it's not the same coach. Same person. But not the same coach. Dan Reeves was not a static human-being and the league changed from 1989 to 1998 and Dan changed as well. He said as much in interviews.
Shanahan and Elway were like salt and pepper, they always get passed together. The difference is John was on the field and touched the ball. Just stop with the nonsensical arguments thinking you are a competent researcher. Your premise is badly configured, ergo, your results are badly interpreted. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
6 AFC championship games, 5 Super Bowl Starts, League MVP, Super Bowl MVP, 3rd in all-time TDs at retirement in a running league, retired with the Most wins ever by a starting QB. Name the QBs that have started 5 Super Bowls. It's a short list.
Of course he was going to be ranked highly in longevity stats at retirement. He played far more games than most of the other top QBs. That's like comparing his TD total to Mahomes. How 'bout TD percentage? Unitas finished with a career TD% of 5.6, in an even less QB-friendly era. Elway's was 4.1. If you were even trying to be objective, you'd admit that this tells us a lot more than career totals.
No one thinks that Elway wasn't good. But we're debating whether he deserves to be considered one of the 5 greatest QBs to ever play in 130 years of football. You're acting like only a few have impressive accomplishments. For argument's sake, what is it that made him greater than, say, Roethlisberger? I'm sure you'll say "he appeared in more Super Bowls!!" without providing the context that Ben had to go through Brady and Manning instead of Bernie freaking Kosar.
It's convenient to ignore all the pre-Super Bowl era QBs, while also dismissing most modern QBs due to rules changes. And ignoring factors like a weak AFC, numbers that didn't compare that well vs the other top QBs of his era, a bunch of non-playoff seasons, an MVP that should've gone to Jerry Rice, etc. You also ignore that basically only Denver fans rank Elway in the top 5.
If Denver had two all-time top 5 QBs for two decades....don't you think it's sad that they're tied with the Chiefs in Super Bowls, with fewer NFL championships, a lower win % and a lopsided head to head record? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mile High Mania:
It won't hurt me, I'm expecting Mahomes to add a few more rings to his collection. He's fun to watch for at least 15 games a season.
You are a Zen master. When the Broncos were good I hated them so much. I seriously was so far gone I got more pleasure from seeing them lose than I did from seeing the Chiefs win. Probably not healthy.
Now I barely care what the Broncos do. Or anybody else. [Reply]
If Denver had two all-time top 5 QBs for two decades....don't you think it's sad that they're tied with the Chiefs in Super Bowls, with fewer NFL championships, a lower win % and a lopsided head to head record?
Basically, the situation that we have had with the Packers under Favre and Rodgers. All that greatness for 3 decades and only 2 SB wins. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
Of course he was going to be ranked highly in longevity stats at retirement. He played far more games than most of the other top QBs. That's like comparing his TD total to Mahomes. How 'bout TD percentage? Unitas finished with a career TD% of 5.6, in an even less QB-friendly era. Elway's was 4.1. If you were even trying to be objective, you'd admit that this tells us a lot more than career totals.
No one thinks that Elway wasn't good. But we're debating whether he deserves to be considered one of the 5 greatest QBs to ever play in 130 years of football. You're acting like only a few have impressive accomplishments. For argument's sake, what is it that made him greater than, say, Roethlisberger? I'm sure you'll say "he appeared in more Super Bowls!!" without providing the context that Ben had to go through Brady and Manning instead of Bernie freaking Kosar.
It's convenient to ignore all the pre-Super Bowl era QBs, while also dismissing most modern QBs due to rules changes. And ignoring factors like a weak AFC, numbers that didn't compare that well vs the other top QBs of his era, a bunch of non-playoff seasons, an MVP that should've gone to Jerry Rice, etc. You also ignore that basically only Denver fans rank Elway in the top 5.
If Denver had two all-time top 5 QBs for two decades....don't you think it's sad that they're tied with the Chiefs in Super Bowls, with fewer NFL championships, a lower win % and a lopsided head to head record?
LOL...Elway is always in the top ten by most measures and opinions and typically top 5 in most publications of note. And Denver always has two QBs in the top ten. Chiefs have 1 too if you want to count Joe Montana, but Lin kinda puts the lid on that. Even Patrick Mahomes has Elway in his top 5. [Reply]
