Originally Posted by Mile High Mania:
Well, it should be easy to just rattle off 7-8 based on your comment, yeah?
? Not sure what you are talking about? I said he wasn't the best of his era and you asked me who was better and I said Montana and Marino and now you are talking about rattling off 7-8? Where did that come from? [Reply]
Originally Posted by tredadda:
? Not sure what you are talking about? I said he wasn't the best of his era and you asked me who was better and I said Montana and Marino and now you are talking about rattling off 7-8? Where did that come from?
Well, you said he wasn't considered the best of his era... I was looking for who were the half dozen or so that would be considered better? You threw two out, just figured you would have quite a few names.
In most rankings, Elway sits behind Montana and Marino as it is, so I figured those two were obvious. Keep in mind, never have I ever ranked him #1 all-time, just to be clear.
I think most lists (and there are so many) have him in the 5-10 range all-time. Just saw one that had him 8 and Mahomes 7. Suggesting he wasn't considered among the best of his era is kinda silly though. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mile High Mania:
Yeah, Wazu... I think you typically only see Moon from those names listed in the top 8-12 depending on the source. The others, not so much.
I would agree. Kinda stunning though when you look at stats comparisons. People didn't do that as much back in the day because they really couldn't. If they could have I think perception of Elway vs his peers would be different. [Reply]
Originally Posted by wazu:
I would agree. Kinda stunning though when you look at stats comparisons. People didn't do that as much back in the day because they really couldn't. If they could have I think perception of Elway vs his peers would be different.
If you only looked at stats, possibly... if you watched those QBs play, no. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mile High Mania:
Well, you said he wasn't considered the best of his era... I was looking for who were the half dozen or so that would be considered better? You threw two out, just figured you would have quite a few names.
In most rankings, Elway sits behind Montana and Marino as it is, so I figured those two were obvious. Keep in mind, never have I ever ranked him #1 all-time, just to be clear.
I think most lists (and there are so many) have him in the 5-10 range all-time. Just saw one that had him 8 and Mahomes 7. Suggesting he wasn't considered among the best of his era is kinda silly though.
One of the best of his era? Sure. The best of his era? Nope. When I look at best, I am looking at Top 2. When I am looking at one of the best I am thinking Top 5. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mile High Mania:
If you only looked at stats, possibly... if you watched those QBs play, no.
I don't think you should "only" do either. I watched those QBs play and would not have imagined that many/most had better passing stats than John Elway. And I would have picked Elway over someone like Krieg in a heartbeat. But stats do tell a story, and the gap between Elway and some of those QBs probably was exaggerated in the minds of NFL viewers. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mile High Mania:
That has not been my intent at all. As has been said, it's just difficult to compare players from different eras. Every decade things evolve and advance.
My point with looking at the last 25 years, yeah there are a couple of phenomenal QB talents that have the longevity, stats and "wow factor" from watching them play. I think you look at guys like Ryan, Rivers, Stafford and several others and point to what are their memorable moments? What did they do in their body of work that makes them different. Hell, they'll all get into the HOF, but that doesn't really speak to their place in the game.
Right now we are seeing the 'golden age' of QBs for the most part. Players are bigger, stronger faster, rules are different and offensive schemes are different and more wide open.
Just look at the list of all-time 4,000+ yard passers... the great bulk of those QBs and seasons it has happened have been within the last quarter century.
There's not one stat or collection of stats that cements greatness. Hell, Aikman has a lot of accolades and 3 rings. I don't know if anyone can point to more than 3 games where they say "Troy won this one".
Strip people of their fandom biases and ask them to put up the best 12-15 QBs of all time, the lists will include 95% of the same QBs - order doesn't really matter.
Obviously, Montana and Brady will be 1A/1B for most... but there are another 12-13 players that are locks for the all-time greats. And, honestly I don't care where you rank any of them - they're dominant and belong on the list.
I think Aikman gets a bad rap because he had some loaded teams, but Elway's last 3 teams were loaded too. I'd rank Elway above Aikman, but Aikman was pretty damn good. One of the most accurate QBs ever.
I don't compare Elway's numbers to today's QBs. I only compare to his era. His numbers and accomplishments were solid. I just don't think they were "top 5 all time" solid. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
Who says Otto Graham wasn't great. Those players are all great. Johnny U, Bart Starr, Montana, Aikmen, Farve, etc.
But don't piss on my shoes and try to tell me its raining. Elway was great. Most Wins, Most Super Bowl starts, Finally defeated the NFC, Super Bowl MVP....gosh..what more do you want?
I don't think anybody's claiming that Elway wasn't good. But you have the opinion that it's idiotic to not rank him in the all-time top 5, right? [Reply]
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
I think Aikman gets a bad rap because he had some loaded teams, but Elway's last 3 teams were loaded too. I'd rank Elway above Aikman, but Aikman was pretty damn good. One of the most accurate QBs ever.
I don't compare Elway's numbers to today's QBs. I only compare to his era. His numbers and accomplishments were solid. I just don't think they were "top 5 all time" solid.
That's where I stand as well. I just can't put Elway in Top 5 all time territory. [Reply]
