Had an NFC Personnel executive tell me “He reminds me of J.J. Watt, when Watt was coming out. An explosive and versatile playmaker who has a high motor and can line up at 3,5, or 7. Very strong kid” #NFL#NFLDraftpic.twitter.com/5qM3g6OrMr
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare:
If George is great awesome, I'll give him his due.
This all started when I said he doesn't play like Tamba, and then you brought up his pro day numbers where Tamba notoriously had an average showing
How can you watch the 2 and come away thinking they don’t play similarly? You may need to watch some refreshers…they have a ton of similarities to their games.
They both played in the big 10, too…so they are battle tested. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BossChief:
How can you watch the 2 and come away thinking they don’t play similarly? You may need to watch some refreshers…they have a ton of similarities to their games.
They both played in the big 10, too…so they are battle tested.
Tamba was had insanely quick reflexes off the ball, and didn't play with power but technique and quicks. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare:
Ok, :-) about how great he can be.
I have no expectations, apparently you do
Spags and Chiefs have high expectations of him so I'm going have high expectations for him. The kid looks like he is going be fun watching him get around or bull LT he is going disrupt the backfield and terrorize quarterbacks. Spags said he was the guy he wanted most out of everyone. If he doesn't turn out then that really sucks for us and bad look on Beck Vern. I don't see any reason not to have high expectations we are the Kansas City Chiefs in an era of domination of the league. So our defense is going start dominate to go along with our bombardment offense with a tenacious offensive line. Karlaftis is tenacious. We drafted tenacity and it's going to show. Our DBs will be heat seekers not afraid to hit we got guys that love to hit on defense now.
I'm fucking stoked and ready to put on pads myself and get out there.
Leo Chenal is going bring tenacity Bryan Cook is going bring tenacity. Baow V3man is drafting guys with tenacity in their blood. My expectations are through the roof. We have a Tenacious D. [Reply]
Problem I have comparing Karlaftis to Hali is that they never called holding when LTs would arm choke Tamba and put him in a choke hold. That would never draw a flag. So I hope that's not the case for Karlaftis and that they throw the yellow flags on the LT holding. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rasputin:
Problem I have comparing Karlaftis to Hali is that they never called holding when LTs would arm choke Tamba and put him in a choke hold. That would never draw a flag. So I hope that's not the case for Karlaftis and that they throw the yellow flags on the LT holding.
Ref bias is total bullshit. They never called that shit. [Reply]
People forget that after Hali's first 2-3 seasons, a large percentage of fans wanted him gone. Some argued he was a weak liability against the run and poor rusher. Patience. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2:
People forget that after Hali's first 2-3 seasons, a large percentage of fans wanted him gone. Some argued he was a weak liability against the run and poor rusher. Patience.
Our fan base has higher expectations on these rookies. It's going be a problem when any of them make a mistake people like TEX or Comoreruun or DTVietcon or Pete will make a thread mid game to bitch about said player and say how much Bring Vilmore sucked with his draft picks.
We have a lot to prove but these kids seem motivated and I think hitting the weights and just learning what the coaches want them to do they will be better sooner I think than later but Chiefs fans need to be patient with some of them. [Reply]
To put things in perspective, here is an excerpt from a 2009 article on Hali.
"Problem is, Hali didn't fare any better in 2007. The Chiefs gave up 5.7 yards per carry to Tamba's edge in that year. Good enough for 29th in the NFL (Hey, still an upgrade over the 32nd rank in the chart above). And teams recognized this, too, as more plays were run at Tamba's edge than all but one team in the NFL.
If you're noticing the beginning of a trend here then you won't be surprised to hear that in 2006 he was the target of the Chiefs' opponents' 5.42 yards per carry average, which pitted Hali's end as the 24th worst in the NFL.
After one below average and two terrible seasons, it's becoming clear that Tamba's not going to "get it" as people like to say. Judging by the statistics above, even two seasons with Jared Allen, Tamba Hali probably won't get much better in the rest of his career.
Time and time again we've noted Hali's statistical regression in rushing the passer (8 sacks, 7.5 sacks, 3 sacks). So, what exactly does he do well?
The scouting reports on him coming out of Penn State noted his run defense. Unfortunately, his game isn't complete in that area. In fact, Hali is well on his way to being at best a mediocre run defender that might be too small as a 3-4 defensive end but not quite quick enough as a 3-4 linebacker.
At this point of the game, Hali's going to be on the Chiefs roster as the 2009 season commences in September. But I'm willing to bet he won't be around much longer. His contract calls for base salaries of $940,000 in 2009 and $1.31 million in 2010 so the Chiefs can likely release him at any time without being handi-capped by the salary cap." [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
I don't really see him similar to Tamba at all.
The hand-fighting thing, I guess. Hali was really good with his hands and it helped him overcome having slightly shorter arms.
But Hali won with agility a LOT more than Karlaftis will. Hali got your hands off him then leaned around guys. What Karlaftis will typically do is shed that punch and then go THROUGH them.
I dunno...maybe a poverty Neil Smith? The Chiefs haven't really had a ton of power players on the edge.
Oh wait - Dan Williams. Y'all remember him at all? He had that one really good season and then a couple other pretty solid ones. Wasn't terribly fast or agile but when he was motivated he'd get into a guys body and kind of bully them out of the way.
But it's fair to point out that Williams was at his best when DT was opposite of him. He needed a speed threat on the other side to make teams shade that way or stagger their passing sets. I mean you can't really have one OT dropping into a vertical set and the other playing at 45 degrees or something because there's no pocket that forms.
So with DT out there, teams HAD to get into vertical sets or DT would blow past them. And with the OTs going vertical, Williams would have that room to operate, get them on an island and then push through them.
That's why I think we still BADLY need a speed rusher out there. Clark isn't going to have teams game-planning to ensure they beat a rusher to the spot. Nor will Karlaftis. So they won't rush to get vertical, they'll stay square to Clark and Karlaftis and they'll be able to do more to neutralize power.
Put Hughes out there and teams now have to account for the speed threat and they'll do more vertical sets. And when they do, Karlaftis will be FAR more effective.
We really needed another piece on this DL from this draft, IMO. We've constructed the line in a way that will make it less than the sum of its parts. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
The hand-fighting thing, I guess. Hali was really good with his hands and it helped him overcome having slightly shorter arms.
But Hali won with agility a LOT more than Karlaftis will. Hali got your hands off him then leaned around guys. What Karlaftis will typically do is shed that punch and then go THROUGH them.
I dunno...maybe a poverty Neil Smith? The Chiefs haven't really had a ton of power players on the edge.
Oh wait - Dan Williams. Y'all remember him at all? He had that one really good season and then a couple other pretty solid ones. Wasn't terribly fast or agile but when he was motivated he'd get into a guys body and kind of bully them out of the way.
But it's fair to point out that Williams was at his best when DT was opposite of him. He needed a speed threat on the other side to make teams shade that way or stagger their passing sets. I mean you can't really have one OT dropping into a vertical set and the other playing at 45 degrees or something because there's no pocket that forms.
So with DT out there, teams HAD to get into vertical sets or DT would blow past them. And with the OTs going vertical, Williams would have that room to operate, get them on an island and then push through them.
That's why I think we still BADLY need a speed rusher out there. Clark isn't going to have teams game-planning to ensure they beat a rusher to the spot. Nor will Karlaftis. So they won't rush to get vertical, they'll stay square to Clark and Karlaftis and they'll be able to do more to neutralize power.
Put Hughes out there and teams now have to account for the speed threat and they'll do more vertical sets. And when they do, Karlaftis will be FAR more effective.
We really needed another piece on this DL from this draft, IMO. We've constructed the line in a way that will make it less than the sum of its parts.
I think with Karlaftis, the question will be if his short-area quickness - the first step, his ability to wiggle - will continue to be enough, paired with his strength, heavy hands, and hand-fighting - for him to unbalance opposing offensive linemen by slowing their step/reaction.
He's very quick initially and was able to use it in college to get guys off-balance and then just brutalize them. If he can continue to progress at those technique items, he's going to be a really good pro. It's the type of package that always gave Eric Fisher fits at LT.
But yes, having a really speedy guy at RE who can force the QB to step up in the pocket (into the power-rushing angles of Karlaftis or Jones) would play up the whole situation. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
I think with Karlaftis, the question will be if his short-area quickness - the first step, his ability to wiggle - will continue to be enough, paired with his strength, heavy hands, and hand-fighting - for him to unbalance opposing offensive linemen by slowing their step/reaction.
He's very quick initially and was able to use it in college to get guys off-balance and then just brutalize them. If he can continue to progress at those technique items, he's going to be a really good pro. It's the type of package that always gave Eric Fisher fits at LT.
But yes, having a really speedy guy at RE who can force the QB to step up in the pocket (into the power-rushing angles of Karlaftis or Jones) would play up the whole situation.
As you noted, he's actually pretty damn quick off the snap. I think some of this 'he's not very athletic' stuff has been overblown into a belief that he's just a lummox out there.
No he isn't. He has good initial burst and even decent speed. He's just not real bendy. So you COULD widen his split out and let him use that speed/burst to 'fake' the angle a bit.
But then you're more susceptible to runs through the B gap. Now he's powerful enough to maybe close that lane through merely bullying the tackle on occasion, but not every time.
I think he's a good player and can really contribute here. I think he's also the kind of guy that is more difficult to find these days than a speed rusher. I just don't think we've done all we can do to make him as successful as possible. We treated him as a stand-alone difference maker and I just don't think that's the case. He has a very valuable and fairly rare - but still mostly complementary - skill set. [Reply]
