Originally Posted by RealSNR:
John Elway’s best season for TDs is the same as Matt ****ing Cassel’s best season for TDs
I know you guys are trolling the Donks fans, but Elway was something beyond the statistics.
The closest sports analogue I can think is-
He was George Brett.
A guy who, yeah, he racked up the stats and everything but it had more to do with WHEN he would make a play. Elway won more games he had no business winning than anyone else I ever saw.
As a Chiefs fan, I hated him. And over the years, it became begrudging respect. It's not luck when it just keeps happening. Those three SB losing teams he had were terrible and had no business even making it to the SB, but Elway just kind of willed them to that game. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I know you guys are trolling the Donks fans, but Elway was something beyond the statistics.
The closest sports analogue I can think is-
He was George Brett.
A guy who, yeah, he racked up the stats and everything but it had more to do with WHEN he would make a play. Elway won more games he had no business winning than anyone else I ever saw.
As a Chiefs fan, I hated him. And over the years, it became begrudging respect. It's not luck when it just keeps happening. Those three SB losing teams he had were terrible and had no business even making it to the SB, but Elway just kind of willed them to that game.
Yeah, I am sure they will get Queso Joe engaged with all this… [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I know you guys are trolling the Donks fans, but Elway was something beyond the statistics.
The closest sports analogue I can think is-
He was George Brett.
A guy who, yeah, he racked up the stats and everything but it had more to do with WHEN he would make a play. Elway won more games he had no business winning than anyone else I ever saw.
As a Chiefs fan, I hated him. And over the years, it became begrudging respect. It's not luck when it just keeps happening. Those three SB losing teams he had were terrible and had no business even making it to the SB, but Elway just kind of willed them to that game.
I understand the point you're making about being a clutch player, but Brett put up great numbers. Elway's numbers are not really all that good.
He had 300 TD passes, but that was over 16 seasons. That is less than 19 TDs per season.
His career TD/INT ratio was just 1.3. That's awfully damn close to one interception for every TD and he's in the hall of fame!
I'm not going to tell you I have no respect for Elway because that would be silly. He hurt the Chiefs many times, but just as we should be realistic about Elway as a good QB, we should also be realistic about the fact that he doesn't hold a candle to the best QBs statistically. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RedinTexas:
I understand the point you're making about being a clutch player, but Brett put up great numbers. Elway's numbers are not really all that good.
He had 300 TD passes, but that was over 16 seasons. That is less than 19 TDs per season.
His career TD/INT ratio was just 1.3. That's awfully damn close to one interception for every TD and he's in the hall of fame!
I'm not going to tell you I have no respect for Elway because that would be silly. He hurt the Chiefs many times, but just as we should be realistic about Elway as a good QB, we should also be realistic about the fact that he doesn't hold a candle to the best QBs statistically.
Again and I’ll end with this… at the time of his retirement after the 1998 season, he was #3 all-time passing TDs. And he was top 3-5 in many other categories. Slice it up however you like from a stats perspective. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I know you guys are trolling the Donks fans, but Elway was something beyond the statistics.
The closest sports analogue I can think is-
He was George Brett.
A guy who, yeah, he racked up the stats and everything but it had more to do with WHEN he would make a play. Elway won more games he had no business winning than anyone else I ever saw.
As a Chiefs fan, I hated him. And over the years, it became begrudging respect. It's not luck when it just keeps happening. Those three SB losing teams he had were terrible and had no business even making it to the SB, but Elway just kind of willed them to that game.
He buried his own teams before most of those comebacks. A lot of people fail to realize this. They only watch the highlights, not the previous 3 quarters. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RedinTexas:
I understand the point you're making about being a clutch player, but Brett put up great numbers. Elway's numbers are not really all that good.
He had 300 TD passes, but that was over 16 seasons. That is less than 19 TDs per season.
His career TD/INT ratio was just 1.3. That's awfully damn close to one interception for every TD and he's in the hall of fame!
I'm not going to tell you I have no respect for Elway because that would be silly. He hurt the Chiefs many times, but just as we should be realistic about Elway as a good QB, we should also be realistic about the fact that he doesn't hold a candle to the best QBs statistically.
What we’re leaving out of the context is how dangerous he was with his feet too. He would kill you scrambling. He also had 33 rushing TDs and one receiving TD. Can’t tell you how many times I swore we were gonna sack him, then poof he’s running down the field [Reply]
Originally Posted by Coochie liquor:
What we’re leaving out of the context is how dangerous he was with his feet too. He would kill you scrambling. He also had 33 rushing TDs and one receiving TD. Can’t tell you how many times I swore we were gonna sack him, then poof he’s running down the field
Shotgun from the 1 yard line, run right up the middle untouched.
Originally Posted by Mile High Mania:
Again and I’ll end with this… at the time of his retirement after the 1998 season, he was #3 all-time passing TDs. And he was top 3-5 in many other categories. Slice it up however you like from a stats perspective.
Don't you think most solid QBs who start almost every game for 16-17 years are going to amass stats?
Matt Ryan is #9 all time. Carson Palmer is #15. [Reply]
We have been over this before...NO! NO! NO! DAMMIT!!!! It MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT give the Donx an on field advantage by being able to illegally pay their two best players. :-)
Originally Posted by RedinTexas:
I understand the point you're making about being a clutch player, but Brett put up great numbers. Elway's numbers are not really all that good.
He had 300 TD passes, but that was over 16 seasons. That is less than 19 TDs per season.
His career TD/INT ratio was just 1.3. That's awfully damn close to one interception for every TD and he's in the hall of fame!
I'm not going to tell you I have no respect for Elway because that would be silly. He hurt the Chiefs many times, but just as we should be realistic about Elway as a good QB, we should also be realistic about the fact that he doesn't hold a candle to the best QBs statistically.
Everything is very different now, and the stats are in a different stratosphere. At the time he retired, he absolutely had HOF stats. Did other have better stats? Sure, but that's what I'm saying.
If I had to win one game in the late 80's, I'd take Elway over Marino. Marino had the gaudy stats, but I was never as afraid of Marino as I was when we were up by a FG with two minutes left and Denver got the ball.
Anyway, not really interested in getting too into any flame wars or anything, and nobody's going to change anyone's mind on the matter, but Elway was truly great.
And now I hope he dies in a flaming aids tree. No wait! I hope he takes control of the Broncos again to keep running them into the ditch! [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I know you guys are trolling the Donks fans, but Elway was something beyond the statistics.
The closest sports analogue I can think is-
He was George Brett.
A guy who, yeah, he racked up the stats and everything but it had more to do with WHEN he would make a play. Elway won more games he had no business winning than anyone else I ever saw.
As a Chiefs fan, I hated him. And over the years, it became begrudging respect. It's not luck when it just keeps happening. Those three SB losing teams he had were terrible and had no business even making it to the SB, but Elway just kind of willed them to that game.
Obviously people are exaggerating, but I think the "carried terrible teams on his back like Superman" narrative is an exaggeration too. During the SB winning years, they more or less carried him. Do you really think they had no business beating the Bernie Kosar Browns?
The fact remains that guys like Favre were putting up a lot more TDs than Elway even when Elway had a stacked roster. Not saying that he wasn't good, but I don't think "different era" is an excuse to never hit 30 TDs. Tons of guys were throwing well beyond 30 back then.
Take 1997. Favre led the league with 35. Jeff George was next with 29. Followed by Bledsoe, Elway, Moon, Dilfer, Kordell Stewart, Chris Chandler and Brad Johnson. Was it incredibly hard to throw 30 TDs in those days, or were a lot of the guys in that list just not that good? [Reply]
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
Obviously people are exaggerating, but I think the "carried terrible teams on his back like Superman" narrative is an exaggeration too. During the SB winning years, they more or less carried him. Do you really think they had no business beating the Bernie Kosar Browns?
The fact remains that guys like Favre were putting up a lot more TDs than Elway even when Elway had a stacked roster. Not saying that he wasn't good, but I don't think "different era" is an excuse to never hit 30 TDs. Tons of guys were throwing well beyond 30 back then.
Take 1997. Favre led the league with 35. Jeff George was next with 29. Followed by Bledsoe, Elway, Moon, Dilfer, Kordell Stewart, Chris Chandler and Brad Johnson. Was it incredibly hard to throw 30 TDs in those days, or were a lot of the guys in that list just not that good?
Byner's fumble? The drive?
No, He was great. Any other argument is either from those who didn't see him play, or those who just hate Denver. [Reply]
