Bring back stripped down muscle cars like the 70 Chevelle with the LS6, or a 440 Road Runner. Good old metal death traps that have a manual trans and will scare the shit out of you [Reply]
Originally Posted by cooper barrett:
bullshit, if there is a post it's a 2 door sedan
Mercedes 500sec COUPE NO POST
BMY 440i Coupe NOT A COUPE a fastback
[IMG]https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/2021-bmw-4-series-coupe-113-1591044035.jpg?crop=0.795xw:0.671xh;0.0705xw,0.313xh&resize=1200:*[/IMG]
GTR NOT A COUPE a fastback
yes 2 door sedan
QUIZ
coupe or sedan?
question 2
red car:
1964 Ford Fairlane 2-door sedan
yellow(ish)
1964 Ford 2-door hardtop coupe.
It's more complex than this: To support roof (not have a post) the roofline had to be modified but not on all cars.
<--- stepping off soapbox exhaling.....
Don't really want to run down this rabbit hole, so let's just say that for this conversation we're talking about sport coupes or GT coupes, not sedans with two doors. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Kinda figured that what you really meant was, "Why don't American manufactures use European philosophies" but didn't want to assume.
What you're really asking is, "why don't more American companies use V6 or Turbo 4-bangers in their sports cars?"
Porsche Caymans don't have backseats. It's a Roadster, not a Coupe.
BMW 4-Series coupes come in 2.0 4-Cyl and 3.0 V6 Configurations.
If you want an small-motor, light weight car that you can throw around corners, Ford addressed that with the 4cyl Turbo Mustang.
Your complaint isn't that Americans don't make awesome sport-coupes. Your complaint is that they don't put high performance, small displacement motors in their sports cars.
Their small displacement variants are treated more as economy cars to help with EPA issues.
Your BMW 4-series Coupe offers a 300HP V6 as its top engine choice, meanwhile, that's the economy version of a Mustang, Camaro or Challenger.
Hey now, I wasn't complaining at all. I was posing a kind of hypothetical question.
And I don't need a 4 or 6 cylinder engine. IIRC BMW makes an 8-cylinder that makes plenty of HP. I want as powerful an engine as possible that doesn't get so heavy that it induces terminal understeer or moves the cG too far forward. The last thing I care about is MPG. Powerful, responsive, lightweight so i can carve turns without feeling like I'm going to slide right off a cliff. Something i can drive quickly and have some fun, but I don't need to be an actual racecar driver to enjoy. And relatively inexpensive, say under $50,000.
Here's my main issues with the Camaro, Mustang and Challenger cars: One, they look too much like Transformer cars for my taste; I want something a little more subtle as i pass 50 years old. Two, the interiors look kind of cheap for all the money you're shelling out. For $50,000 give or take I want to be impressed by the quality of interior fit and finish, just a little. Three, the driving/handling experience could be better for the money.
I'll give a short example: The BMW 240i doesn't have the biggest or most powerful engine, but it makes plenty of hp and torque; enough to propel the thing from 0-60 in under 5 seconds. Which is nice, but what you really notice when you drive the thing up through some twisty mountain roads is just how nimble and precise it is in the corners, and how predictable. It communicates what's happening so well that you almost think you could drive the thing blindfolded through those twists and turns.
Now, is the 240i probably a great track car? Probably not as good as a ZL1/LE1 or whatever, but I'm not going to drive the thing on the Ring either. I'm going to drive it on the way home from work, where every once in a while I might want to let 'er out a little, or take it up on the weekend for some mountain roads here in AZ, CO, UT, or NM. See where I'm coming from?
Anyway, I've been looking around the interwebs a little lately just for goofs and I noticed a real lack of American sports coupes, so I thought it might be fun to talk about it. [Reply]
You keep saying that the Mustang and Camaro don’t handle well, have you drove any of those in the past couple years? They have massively improved, most car magazines and reviewers rave about how those care handle now. [Reply]
Originally Posted by mac459:
You keep saying that the Mustang and Camaro don’t handle well, have you drove any of those in the past couple years? They have massively improved, most car magazines and reviewers rave about how those care handle now.
I drove a Mustang GT 2018 (I think, might've been a '17?) a couple years ago; haven't yet driven a Camaro since 2017. It was much improved over the Mustang Gt I drove several years before that, which I think I mentioned somewhere above. But as good as it was, it wasn't as good as some other coupes I've driven recently (meaning over the last 4 years or so). It lacks "refinement" is about as precise as I can be about it. The Mustang was fast and fairly agile, sure, but it didn't communicate as well as I wanted it to, it still exhibited some understeer, the seats could've been better, and the car is just a little too big or wide if that makes more sense. [Reply]
And here's the thing: while the Camaro, Challenger and Mustang (I'll thrown in the Caddy as well) are good sports coupes, essentially three of them are the same type of car. Here we call them pony cars or muscle cars, but the point is that they all are designed around the same idea: take a 2-door 4-seater and jam a big brash engine in it so it goes fast. Which is great, but the only American coupe that tries to be a little refined is the Caddy.
But where is the American coupe that's a little more refined than a Mustang/Camaro/whatever but not as fancy-schmancy as a Caddy? You know, something that isn't as over-the-top as a Camaro, but doesn't need the calfskin leather sun visors or heated seats or whatever. Put that money into the suspension or the engine. That's the slot I'm thinking of. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
And here's the thing: while the Camaro, Challenger and Mustang (I'll thrown in the Caddy as well) are good sports coupes, essentially three of them are the same type of car. Here we call them pony cars or muscle cars, but the point is that they all are designed around the same idea: take a 2-door 4-seater and jam a big brash engine in it so it goes fast. Which is great, but the only American coupe that tries to be a little refined is the Caddy.
But where is the American coupe that's a little more refined than a Mustang/Camaro/whatever but not as fancy-schmancy as a Caddy? You know, something that isn't as over-the-top as a Camaro, but doesn't need the calfskin leather sun visors or heated seats or whatever. Put that money into the suspension or the engine. That's the slot I'm thinking of.
So Chevy has a feature called Magnetic Ride Control. I bought the wife a Yukon with one and it really does a good job on our kid hauler. I can’t imagine how much good it would do on a performance wagon.
Originally Posted by Buehler445:
So Chevy has a feature called Magnetic Ride Control. I bought the wife a Yukon with one and it really does a good job on our kid hauler. I can’t imagine how much good it would do on a performance wagon.
I've heard of it, never tried it, I think. Drove a Yukon back in the early 2000s; it was terrible. Sloppy numb steering, ditto suspension, engine wasn't strong enough, and the thing creaked and rattled all the time. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
I've heard of it, never tried it, I think. Drove a Yukon back in the early 2000s; it was terrible. Sloppy numb steering, ditto suspension, engine wasn't strong enough, and the thing creaked and rattled all the time.
That’s not the case anymore. Wife’s doesn’t even have the 6.2 and it will straight get it.
I’m not suggesting you buy one. Especially if you’re looking at performance vehicles. But the magnetic ride control is legit. All I was saying. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Buehler445:
That’s not the case anymore. Wife’s doesn’t even have the 6.2 and it will straight get it.
I’m not suggesting you buy one. Especially if you’re looking at performance vehicles. But the magnetic ride control is legit. All I was saying.
that's cool. Nice to hear that they tried to get it right.
And I'm not actually looking to get a sports car/coupe/sedan. Not in any real sense anyway. I'm blue skying. Because the stupid bug has basically killed off most of my social activities for now, I've been spending some time watching car shows. Auctions (recorded, I believe), Motor Trend, Top Gear, etc., and they review a lot of sports coupes, but they all seem to be European or Japanese, and I just thought, "where are the American offerings?"
I have a Tacoma TRD pick-up and a Toyota SUV. I want to trade in the Highlander for something else, but for now I really would like a new-to-me truck. Been looking at Tundras or Silverados mostly. But I kind of still need some kind of people-mover like the SUV for when my brother's family comes into town. Otherwise I'd probably be looking at an Alfa or something. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Kinda figured that what you really meant was, "Why don't American manufactures use European philosophies" but didn't want to assume.
What you're really asking is, "why don't more American companies use V6 or Turbo 4-bangers in their sports cars?"
Porsche Caymans don't have backseats. It's a Roadster, not a Coupe.
BMW 4-Series coupes come in 2.0 4-Cyl and 3.0 V6 Configurations.
If you want an small-motor, light weight car that you can throw around corners, Ford addressed that with the 4cyl Turbo Mustang.
Your complaint isn't that Americans don't make awesome sport-coupes. Your complaint is that they don't put high performance, small displacement motors in their sports cars.
Their small displacement variants are treated more as economy cars to help with EPA issues.
Your BMW 4-series Coupe offers a 320HP turbo V6 as its top engine choice, meanwhile, that's the economy version of a Mustang, Camaro or Challenger.
A $33K economy mustang
Americans don't make quality 2 door / 4 seat vehicles that some call coupes (but are hybred sedans). If there is a post behind the door to support the roof it's a sedan called by Ford as a fastback since the rear window is in the back half of the trunk
The BMW is not a coupe..in reality, the Mercedes is not a coupe, the mustang is not a coupe and the caddy is not a coupe.
This is a coupe
Nobody wants to hear that their bad ass Dodge Demon is a 2dr sedan.....so they starting calling them coupes
no body wants to pay for it either. The above 300CE sold for $63K in 1992... [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
that's cool. Nice to hear that they tried to get it right.
And I'm not actually looking to get a sports car/coupe/sedan. Not in any real sense anyway. I'm blue skying. Because the stupid bug has basically killed off most of my social activities for now, I've been spending some time watching car shows. Auctions (recorded, I believe), Motor Trend, Top Gear, etc., and they review a lot of sports coupes, but they all seem to be European or Japanese, and I just thought, "where are the American offerings?"
I have a Tacoma TRD pick-up and a Toyota SUV. I want to trade in the Highlander for something else, but for now I really would like a new-to-me truck. Been looking at Tundras or Silverados mostly. But I kind of still need some kind of people-mover like the SUV for when my brother's family comes into town. Otherwise I'd probably be looking at an Alfa or something.
If you feel the need to scoot periodically the 6.2 GM puts in Tahoe’s and Silverados is pretty hot. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Buehler445:
If you feel the need to scoot periodically the 6.2 GM puts in Tahoe’s and Silverados is pretty hot.
Yeah, I have four friends that have Silverados, not sure exactly what powerplants are in them, but they all can go. None of our trucks can turn worth a damn tho [Reply]
