- Ranked 2nd among charted prospects in success rate vs. man (75%) and press coverage (75.7%) - Led all prospects in success rate vs. zone coverage (88.1%) - He can play inside and outsidehttps://t.co/HbifB61JlJpic.twitter.com/HYsV8rlAzF
I think he'll be a fine player. 6-8 years in the league. 400ish catches for 4000-5000K yards. He'll be better than many taken before him and most taken after him. He's a fine player with no standout flaws.
He simply has no significant strengths, a very low ceiling and little in the way of projectable upside. He's a 'safe' pick in a draft we absolutely loaded with safe picks. There are good arguments in favor of that approach, many of which I actually agree with.
He's fine.
He ain't Antonio Brown and he isn't gonna be.
It's a data set you selected, chief. It's no different than the folks that argue that concussions occur at a lower rate in the NFL than they do in college and High School. Which may be correct in a vacuum but it's correct because the people who are more prone to concussions were culled from the data set IN high school and college after they got their brains scrambled and couldn't keep playing anymore. Your data set there becomes self-selecting because it's eliminated the high risk candidates.
You did the same thing. You culled the data set to include like the 8 most successful MAC receivers of the last quarter century and then expect me to think it means anything. It doesn't.
It's selection bias. That's it. And you know how easy it is to pick apart something like this (hence the reason you shouldn't try it or pay attention when someone does?) Watch this:
Corey Davis -- 1st WR selected in his class
Diontae Johnson -- 10th WR selected in his class
Kenny Golladay -- 12th
Dri Archer -- 16th
Greg Jennings -- 4th
Taylor Price -- 13th
Darius Watts -- 9th
Randy Moss -- 2nd
"NO WR FROM THE MAC TO EVER BE SELECTED AS LATE IN HIS DRAFT GROUP AS SKYY MOORE HAS EVER HAD A SUCCESSFUL NFL CAREER!!!! ADMIT YOU'RE WRONG! CONFESS!!!!!!!"
{fart noises}
Who gives a shit about your arbitrary endpoints? WRs don't get drafted out of the MAC with any regularity. And they don't because it's not a very good conference and doesn't turn out many good ones. As to what you think you got right here (or I got wrong) -- um...no idea what you're babbling on about.
But that's the thing - he isn't. There's nothing to support that other than some tape of him running past MAC defensive backs. Wanna go pull up the DaT draft thread? I goddamn HATED that pick. Loathed it - it inspired one of the most volcanic reactions I've had on this board. And I was nearly universally castigated for it because DeAnthony was 'a dynamic athlete and home run hitter on a team that needs playmakers. He's the next Darren Sproles!' Sound familiar?
Moore is fine athlete; pretty average for an NFL wide receiver. And when combined with his small stature and inexperience vs. complex defenses (he rarely even faced matchup zone type coverages), he's just not a special prospect. And I don't see anything to indicate he'll be much more than an average NFL player.
If he's Golden Tate, Veach absolutely crushed with that pick. If he's Antonio Brown I will suck your dick. And when the rubber hits the road, to be closer to Brown than DAT, he'd need to go for 432 receptions for 5,900 yards and 40 touchdowns over the course of his career. Essentially 54 catches for 740 yards and 5 scores/season for the next 8 seasons. That a gamble you're really comfortable making? Kenny Golladay won't have that kind of career. Corey Davis almost certainly won't. Diontae Johnson might, Greg Jennings did. And as noted above, Greg Jennings was the 4th receiver selected in his draft; not the 13th.
So how confident are you that Skyy Moore can be Diontae Johnson? Because that's the likely bar to get even halfway there.
Originally Posted by BossChief:
He’s only been a WR for less than 3 seasons, didn’t know he would be playing WR till he arrived at his first practice. He was a RB previously. Sound familiar?
His coaching hasn’t been great now he has Andy…the best offense mind in the sport
His QB hasn’t been great now he has the GOAT throwing to him.
His testing was borderline elite.
His hands are elite.
I don’t understand why people label him low upside when I see the exact opposite…
What do you see that makes you think “low ceiling”?
I've spent the better part of a month going over that. I'm disinclined to rehash it at this point. The argument is just tiresome and whatever answer I give is going to be met with "BUT!!!" and some degree of disbelief and/or outrage.
I've spent weeks trying to talk myself into this kid - hasn't worked. Spent the same number of weeks explaining why it hasn't worked to others - hasn't caught on. Nobody's having a Perry Mason moment where we shriek that we've learned the errors of our ways at this point. [Reply]
Remember back when I said the only way to use outliers to address a point was when said point was argued in absolutes? Then pointed out how absurd that was? And made a mockery of your argument by making a knowingly ridiculous counterpoint built off same that was stated in absolutes (in all caps no less, in case you were missing what I was up to) then responded to my own counterpoint with fart noises?
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I've spent the better part of a month going over that. I'm disinclined to rehash it at this point. The argument is just tiresome and whatever answer I give is going to be met with "BUT!!!" and some degree of disbelief and/or outrage.
I've spent weeks trying to talk myself into this kid - hasn't worked. Spent the same number of weeks explaining why it hasn't worked to others - hasn't caught on. Nobody's having a Perry Mason moment where we shriek that we've learned the errors of our ways at this point.
Who did you like after the big 5? Bc it seems like those 5 were your high ceiling ass kickers but they got scooped up way too fast.
I think you’ll agree that it would have been foolish to trade a kings ransom to get one of them.
I wasn’t a fan of Pierce and Pickens I liked but didn’t love. Seems like this years WR class was really too heavy but died off fast in early rd 2. Not as strONG as years past.
I loved Dyami Brown who seemed like a great fit last year but we passed for Bolton. I don’t think we’re done here. I think they’ll be getting a WR with a higher ceiling in the next draft [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Who did you like after the big 5? Bc it seems like those 5 were your high ceiling ass kickers but they got scooped up way too fast.
I think you’ll agree that it would have been foolish to trade a kings ransom to get one of them.
I wasn’t a fan of Pierce and Pickens I liked but didn’t love. Seems like this years WR class was really too heavy but died off fast in early rd 2. Not as strONG as years past.
I loved Dyami Brown who seemed like a great fit last year but we passed for Bolton. I don’t think we’re done here. I think they’ll be getting a WR with a higher ceiling in the next draft
At 50? Pickens was the only guy I think I'd have been happy to gamble on there. At least I'm pretty sure that's where I drew my cutoff pre-draft. I think lost in the 'character' stuff is that Pickens may actually have been the best pure route runner in the class. From a pure talent perspective, there's nothing Pickens didn't have. But he clearly didn't impress the staff in the top 30 visit or they wouldn't have risked the trade down. And that trade down got us Kinnard. So there's that.
But when that happened and Pickens went at 53, at 54 I'd have gone with Drake Jackson or Sam Williams and then Tolbert at 63. [Reply]
Why is De'Anthony Thomas even in this conversation?
The clear cutoff for NFL success at WR is 5'9". It's so extremely rare that a receiver under 5'9" does much of anything whatsoever in the NFL, regardless of speed, that it's not even worth talking about. There's like one, in history, and that's Wes Welker.
Not only that, if you don't think Moore has the ability to surpass 65 career receptions for 509 yards and 4 TDs then you're high as a kite.
Moore isn't comparable to DAT. He's not even in the conversation. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Why is De'Anthony Thomas even in this conversation?
The clear cutoff for NFL success at WR is 5'9". It's so extremely rare that a receiver under 5'9" does much of anything whatsoever in the NFL, regardless of speed, that it's not even worth talking about. There's like one, in history, and that's Wes Welker.
Not only that, if you don't think Moore has the ability to surpass 65 career receptions for 509 yards and 4 TDs then you're high as a kite.
Moore isn't comparable to DAT. He's not even in the conversation.
Because Antonio Brown is in the conversation. And again, I think there’s a better chance he ends up closer to Thomas’s career numbers than Brown.
And because DAT is one inch shorter than Moore while also being built extremely similarly and having near identical athletic profiles.
You can act as though a single inch is the right line between success and failure among WR prospects if you’d like, but you know that’s just another arbitrary line of distinction. The league is LITTERED with guys like Moore that just never made it and yes, he’s closer to Deanthony Thomas as an extreme example of his floor than he is Antonio Brown as his ceiling. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Because Antonio Brown is in the conversation. And again, I think there’s a better chance he ends up closer to Thomas’s career numbers than Brown.
And because DAT is one inch shorter than Moore while also being built extremely similarly and having near identical athletic profiles.
You can act as though a single inch is the right line between success and failure among WR prospects if you’d like, but you know that’s just another arbitrary line of distinction. The league is LITTERED with guys like Moore that just never made it and yes, he’s closer to Deanthony Thomas as an extreme example of his floor than he is Antonio Brown as his ceiling.
I'm not acting like it's the line, it is the line. Time tested, mother approved.
And yes, I absolutely think Moore is capable of being closer Brown than DAT. That puts him on par with Randall Cobb as a minimum bar to set. That's very much reasonable to aspire to for him. Much more reasonable than DAT.
The league is littered with even more of the Jalen Tolberts and George Pickens that never made it. And you can count on 1 hand the number of guys like Calvin Austin, who you love, that have ever done anything in the NFL.
We should both see the product on the field before either of us make gross overstatements like DAT or Brown because the chances he's near either end of the spectrum are slim. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Because Antonio Brown is in the conversation. And again, I think there’s a better chance he ends up closer to Thomas’s career numbers than Brown.
And because DAT is one inch shorter than Moore while also being built extremely similarly and having near identical athletic profiles.
You can act as though a single inch is the right line between success and failure among WR prospects if you’d like, but you know that’s just another arbitrary line of distinction. The league is LITTERED with guys like Moore that just never made it and yes, he’s closer to Deanthony Thomas as an extreme example of his floor than he is Antonio Brown as his ceiling.
Dude. No fucking way, unless the kid gets hurt. Watch the route running. Watch the quick acceleration. With Andy Reid and Mahomes, this kid is, at minimum, a productive slot. [Reply]
