Originally Posted by staylor26:
Sure, if you want to ignore the fact that it was a tale of 2 halves of a season for Wilson, and Mahomes led his team to the SB.
I'm pretty sure I remember Mahomes not leading his team to the SB in 2021. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MagicHef:
That's exactly what his link is looking at. It looks at each throw and determines its probability of being intercepted, compiles that throughout the season, and compares that to how many throws actually were intercepted.
Either Chiefs fans are overestimating how many good throws Mahomes made that ended up being intercepted, or Mahomes also made a lot of bad throws that were not intercepted.
These are the only examples I can find quickly. This sort of thing doesn't happen consistently to anyone. But it did last year to the Chiefs, and especially Hill. It's not uncommon for an overthrow to bounce off the fingertips of a WR and get picked off, but it's very rare for accurate, low, routine throws like this to be intercepted. 99% of the time it falls straight to the ground if it's dropped.
In fact, the season ended with Hill tapping a great pass from Mahomes right into the hands of a Bengals DB.
As far as that analysis, I'd imagine that there were a number of poor throws that balanced it out a bit. But strong-armed QBs tend to have a lot of dropped picks. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
My mistake, I was thinking 2020 for both of them.
And Mahomes still led his team to the AFCCG in 2021.
Again, Mahomes has never ended up worse than the AFCCG, whereas Wilson hasn’t won anything without an all-time great defense.
There’s no comparison.
Sure. Again, I'm not arguing that Wilson is better than Mahomes, just that Wilson's best seasons (which actually were not 2021) were better than Mahomes' worst (which was 2021).
If you want to start talking about the team around them, it's pretty easy to point out that Mahomes hasn't won anything without an all-time great HC, an all-time great WR, or an all-time great TE. I guess we'll see one of those situations change this season. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MagicHef:
Sure. Again, I'm not arguing that Wilson is better than Mahomes, just that Wilson's best seasons (which actually were not 2021) were better than Mahomes' worst (which was 2021).
If you want to start talking about the team around them, it's pretty easy to point out that Mahomes hasn't won anything without an all-time great HC, an all-time great WR, or an all-time great TE. I guess we'll see one of those situations change this season.
This team won absolutely nothing until Mahomes came along, but sure, you can try to make that dumb argument. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
This team won absolutely nothing until Mahomes came along, but sure, you can try to make that dumb argument.
Chiefs pre-Mahomes were vastly better than Seahawks pre-Wilson.
In just the 5 years with Alex Smith, the Chiefs had more 11+ win seasons (3) than the Seahawks had in their entire 36 year history as a football club before Wilson (2). [Reply]
Originally Posted by MagicHef:
Chiefs pre-Mahomes were vastly better than Seahawks pre-Wilson.
In just the 5 years with Alex Smith, the Chiefs had more 11+ win seasons (3) than the Seahawks had in their entire 36 year history as a football club before Wilson (2).
The Chiefs went from struggling to simply win a fucking playoff game to being in the AFCCG and/or SB every year. Stop pretending otherwise.
And we all know the Seahawks started winning because they had an all-time great defense. Defense has always been the best way to win championships any given year, it’s just great QBs have more longevity, and therefore more opportunities over time.
Mahomes has never had a defense even remotely close. If he had that defense, he’d have 2-3 rings easily. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BlackOp:
Rumor has it Wilson's agent wants him paid this year...and this was the main reason for Seattle cutting him loose...well that and his declining production.
Sounds like they dumped him at the right time...didn't want to pay him. Found some sadsack organization trying to boost their asking price to a new owner.
His agent is worried if he doesn't produce this season like in the past, it'll hinder his ability for a 5/250 contract at 35.
They have the Donks over a barrel...would he actually be this arrogant to hold out before ever playing a snap.. without an extended contract? I can see his angle/injury concerns...why risk costing yourself millions. He's as good as he's ever going to be at this point. The odds of them struggling in the competitive AFCW is higher than being a contender...new QB, OC/DC, poor OL.
Seahawk fans say "Russ plays for team green"...Donk brass have positioned themselves to have zero leverage in this negotiation. That is the market price for a starting QB.
Man...I hope they hitch their wagon to a fully guaranteed contract until he's 39. If he falls off a cliff...they are stuck with his ass.
There was a reason Wilson was available...and Rodgers wasn't. Franchise QBs dont hit the market without spine issues...or unrealistic contract demands.
Mile High lease runs out on 2028, should line up about right [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
The Chiefs went from struggling to simply win a fucking playoff game to being in the AFCCG and/or SB every year. Stop pretending otherwise.
And we all know the Seahawks started winning because they had an all-time great defense. Defense has always been the best way to win championships any given year, it’s just great QBs have more longevity, and therefore more opportunities over time.
Mahomes has never had a defense even remotely close. If he had that defense, he’d have 2-3 rings easily.
You didn't actually refute a single thing I said. Chiefs pre-Mahomes were vastly better than Seahawks pre-Wilson.
Mahomes had the #7 defense the SB winning season, the #10 defense the SB losing season, and the #8 defense last year. I don't think it was the defense's fault that KC put up 9 and 24 points in those two losses. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MagicHef:
Sure. Again, I'm not arguing that Wilson is better than Mahomes, just that Wilson's best seasons (which actually were not 2021) were better than Mahomes' worst (which was 2021).
If you want to start talking about the team around them, it's pretty easy to point out that Mahomes hasn't won anything without an all-time great HC, an all-time great WR, or an all-time great TE. I guess we'll see one of those situations change this season.
Actually, you were arguing that Wilson's worst year was better than Mahomes' worst. Which it wasn't.
Btw, Hill and Kelce were not considered all-time greats before Mahomes. I'm still not sure that Hill is considered an all-time great.
Many didn't consider Reid a HOF coach until Mahomes, either. He took a lot of heat over the years. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MagicHef:
Chiefs pre-Mahomes were vastly better than Seahawks pre-Wilson.
In just the 5 years with Alex Smith, the Chiefs had more 11+ win seasons (3) than the Seahawks had in their entire 36 year history as a football club before Wilson (2).
The Seahawks had won their division 5 of the last 8 years before Wilson. With 5 playoff wins and a SB appearance in that span, plus a playoff win two years before Wilson arrived. KC had won one playoff game in 21 years.
Originally Posted by MagicHef:
You didn't actually refute a single thing I said. Chiefs pre-Mahomes were vastly better than Seahawks pre-Wilson.
Mahomes had the #7 defense the SB winning season, the #10 defense the SB losing season, and the #8 defense last year. I don't think it was the defense's fault that KC put up 9 and 24 points in those two losses.
Seattle got insanely lucky with their draft picks. Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, Wagner, Russ. Even guys like Okung, Tate, KJ Wright, Bruce Irvin. All really good players.
You could argue that no team in NFL history had a better stretch of drafts than the Seahawks 2010-2012 stretch. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MagicHef:
You didn't actually refute a single thing I said. Chiefs pre-Mahomes were vastly better than Seahawks pre-Wilson.
Mahomes had the #7 defense the SB winning season, the #10 defense the SB losing season, and the #8 defense last year. I don't think it was the defense's fault that KC put up 9 and 24 points in those two losses.
You’re right, I’m giving context, because all of your arguments are stats/numbers based with zero context. Likely because you are clueless when it comes to actually discussing football.
Nobody honestly believes that the Chiefs have had a legit top 10 defense the last 3 years. I’m assuming you’re going by PPG and ignoring everything else. Look at YPG, DVOA, etc. and it’s easy to see that the defense has been average to slightly above average at best. Good enough to win, but not remotely close to an all-time great defense like the Legion of Boom.
For somebody that’s supposedly not trying to argue that Wilson is better than Mahomes, you sure appear to be still trying to argue otherwise.
Wilson has never been the best QB in the NFL. Mahomes was the second he stepped onto the field. There’s no comparison. [Reply]