Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy! [Reply]
Originally Posted by displacedinMN:
I also hope Mahomes does not go crazy and try to over play games next year. Like he did after the TB SB.
It seemed like he pushed and tried too hard and made a lot of mistakes. A LOT.
You dont win the SB in the regular season. The season puts you in position to win the SB.
Do what you do well. Win games. Move on.
There's also the 2022 MVP season & Super Bowl victory that happened right after the 2nd half meltdown against the Bengals in January 2022. Much better Left Tackle situation at the time. So we'll see how it goes. I'm curious to see Veach's moves in the next few months. [Reply]
Originally Posted by comochiefsfan:
I really think Patrick and his team needed a performance like this on a stage like this to cause them to take a step back and really assess things.
When you’re continuing to win, it’s hard to really be motivated to really bust your ass to improve. It’s just human nature.
But there have been glaring concerns for awhile that we’ve been reluctant to address because what can you say if he keeps winning?
I really believe this is going to be the best offseason of his career and will be a little shocked if he doesn’t come out like a man on a mission at the start of next season.
Sucks that it went down like this but I feel like this is a moment we might look back on at the end of his career and point to as a jumping off point to him getting back to MVPat.
I don’t know why I’m actually kind of calm about losing this badly. I think we were masking a lot of issues that can’t just be bandaided over. And when we “get away it” so many times it’s easier to just think we need bandaids and paste.
It’s not just losing this badly. You know these guys are boiling mad with all this nonsense ref bullshit. Frankly I think the team is mentally exhausted. I feel like they’re gonna walk into next year with the mindset of wanting to throttle everyone. I agree… the kind of change and fire we need can only come from losing in this gut wrenching kind of way [Reply]
Tom Brady won a championship in 2018 with Trent Brown, a cast-off RT who was forced to start at LT after their presumed starter was injured and lost for the season in camp. He had Marcus Cannon, past his prime and never very good to begin with, at RT. His IOL was Andrews, Mason and Thuney -- a good IOL, but not great. He was throwing to a washed Edelman, Gronk on his way out of the league and Josh Gordon. None of them had more than 850 yards receiving.
In 2015 he threw for 4700 yards and a 36/7 TD/INT ratio with Sebastian Volmer and a pile of scraps at LT along with 3 rookies on his interior line and that very same pretty average Marcus Cannon at RT. He was throwing to Gronk, Edelman (who missed about half the season) Danny Amendola and Brandon LaFell.
I've spent decades watching Brady, Manning and Montana MAKE their offensive linemen. And they never did that by running around with their hair on fire -- they did it by running the offense on time. All too often, Mahomes doesn't. That's when he gets in trouble. He was at his best THIS season when he was just working the offense and getting the ball out on time.
I just can't get over the deep shot he pulled down Sunday. A high/low, 2-man route combination designed to create a look that depended entirely what the safety does. He looked right at the play. He saw the safety sink on the 'low' with Kelce. He had Worthy even with Mitchell knowing full well how fast Worthy is.
The play did exactly what it was designed to do. And he just wouldn't throw the ball.
It was over right then. I mean it was over BEFORE then, but that was the moment that it was clear that he just wasn't sharp.
And as he demonstrated against Pittsburgh and Houston and even Buffalo - the rest of this is bullshit. I said it BEFORE the Buffalo game that the guy we start at OT barely even matters -- what matters is that Mahomes comes out confident and decisive. When he does, the rest of it takes care of itself. When he doesn't, all hell breaks loose and every weakness we have on the roster is exacerbated. When he's good, the offense is good. When he's bad, it isn't.
The problem with the Chiefs offense, for 2 seasons now, has been the consistency or lack thereof of Patrick Mahomes.
He's still incredibly young in QB years. And he's been under STUPID amounts of pressure. I understand why some of these things happen with him.
But if he has a 3rd straight year of it...well, he's a pretty big part of that throughput. And "He doesn't trust X" is just ridiculous at this point. The Mount Rushmore QBs were asked to find the trust and figure it out. And Mahomes BELONGS on that Mount Rushmore -- so why shouldn't we expect him to build that trust? We've seen lesser talents than him do it with worse weapons. Or with equally bad OL.
I don't give a shit where he stands in relation to Lamar or Allen or whatever. He's an historic tier guy and that's the standard he should be held to. And those guys? They figured it out.
I know you're against blaming Nagy for how Mahomes has played but that play stuck out to me because it's the same play Mahomes took a terrible sack on last week. I get the feeling that Nagy is the kind of coach who would praise him for his overall play last week but won't get on him hard about the small mistakes. Maybe Mahomes is a guy who needs that. Maybe if he had gotten grilled on that play last week, he would have chucked the ball up like he used to and believed that the play would work as intended and someone would be there to catch the ball.
Too many times it's like he has to see someone get clear separation before he throws it. Like a rookie QB. It's like he doesnt trust the play design to work as it should or he just doesn't see the leverage WRs have right before they actually start separating. That will always lead to him being hit more or having to rush throws. [Reply]
Originally Posted by -King-:
Too many times it's like he has to see someone get clear separation before he throws it.
This is just nonsense, probably because of recency bias.
Remember the throw to Hollywood Brown against the Bills that was barely broken up by the DB, who had to leave after he was concussed a couple plays later? That coverage was TIGHT.
Or this.
Or this.
Or this.
We just ran into an absolute beast and they caught Patrick on a day when that amount of pressure made Patrick break. [Reply]
Tom Brady won a championship in 2018 with Trent Brown, a cast-off RT who was forced to start at LT after their presumed starter was injured and lost for the season in camp. He had Marcus Cannon, past his prime and never very good to begin with, at RT. His IOL was Andrews, Mason and Thuney -- a good IOL, but not great. He was throwing to a washed Edelman, Gronk on his way out of the league and Josh Gordon. None of them had more than 850 yards receiving.
In 2015 he threw for 4700 yards and a 36/7 TD/INT ratio with Sebastian Volmer and a pile of scraps at LT along with 3 rookies on his interior line and that very same pretty average Marcus Cannon at RT. He was throwing to Gronk, Edelman (who missed about half the season) Danny Amendola and Brandon LaFell.
I've spent decades watching Brady, Manning and Montana MAKE their offensive linemen. And they never did that by running around with their hair on fire -- they did it by running the offense on time. All too often, Mahomes doesn't. That's when he gets in trouble. He was at his best THIS season when he was just working the offense and getting the ball out on time.
I just can't get over the deep shot he pulled down Sunday. A high/low, 2-man route combination designed to create a look that depended entirely what the safety does. He looked right at the play. He saw the safety sink on the 'low' with Kelce. He had Worthy even with Mitchell knowing full well how fast Worthy is.
The play did exactly what it was designed to do. And he just wouldn't throw the ball.
It was over right then. I mean it was over BEFORE then, but that was the moment that it was clear that he just wasn't sharp.
And as he demonstrated against Pittsburgh and Houston and even Buffalo - the rest of this is bullshit. I said it BEFORE the Buffalo game that the guy we start at OT barely even matters -- what matters is that Mahomes comes out confident and decisive. When he does, the rest of it takes care of itself. When he doesn't, all hell breaks loose and every weakness we have on the roster is exacerbated. When he's good, the offense is good. When he's bad, it isn't.
The problem with the Chiefs offense, for 2 seasons now, has been the consistency or lack thereof of Patrick Mahomes.
He's still incredibly young in QB years. And he's been under STUPID amounts of pressure. I understand why some of these things happen with him.
But if he has a 3rd straight year of it...well, he's a pretty big part of that throughput. And "He doesn't trust X" is just ridiculous at this point. The Mount Rushmore QBs were asked to find the trust and figure it out. And Mahomes BELONGS on that Mount Rushmore -- so why shouldn't we expect him to build that trust? We've seen lesser talents than him do it with worse weapons. Or with equally bad OL.
I don't give a shit where he stands in relation to Lamar or Allen or whatever. He's an historic tier guy and that's the standard he should be held to. And those guys? They figured it out.
The last 2 years we’ve made Mahomes work hard for this offense to keep it afloat. Everything has been difficult.
5 starting LT’s
Back-to-back years with a rookie WR forced to be WR1 early in the year
Average at best talent at RB, terrible this year
The guy got sacked and hit more since the Raiders day X-Mas game and it’s fucked with his mind mentally. The MVS/Toney fiasco was hard enough.
This offseason the goal needs to be making life easier for Mahomes. Find a LT that can play decent ball. Get the man a RB that can take a simple handoff 60 yards or get 15 off a simple pass to the flat bc he made a guy miss.
A talented RB alone would help everybody. Saquon force us to be in single high a lot and Hurts threw easy deep passes bc of it. The first TD was a prime example.
It’s time to load this offense back up and it starts with LT. [Reply]
Pat has always played a different style to traditional pocket passers.
Hopefully this is the jolt he needs. The stats don’t lie and there has been a plateau. It’s been a big three years (and more). He’s got 3 kids now and last preseason he and Kelce seemed to be everywhere other than focussing on football. Good on them they deserved it.
It really seems like the Mahomes 2.0 or even 3.0 career starts now.
I’d like to see him get a fraction fitter now he’s 30
Regardless of the OLine issues deep down we all have to admit that his accuracy has dropped off a fraction. Not a lot obviously but I’ve never seen as many floaters and misses as this year in btw the magic.
You don’t lose talent so looking fwd to next season [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
The last 2 years we’ve made Mahomes work hard for this offense to keep it afloat. Everything has been difficult.
5 starting LT’s
Back-to-back years with a rookie WR forced to be WR1 early in the year
Average at best talent at RB, terrible this year
The guy got sacked and hit more since the Raiders day X-Mas game and it’s ****ed with his mind mentally. The MVS/Toney fiasco was hard enough.
This offseason the goal needs to be making life easier for Mahomes. Find a LT that can play decent ball. Get the man a RB that can take a simple handoff 60 yards or get 15 off a simple pass to the flat bc he made a guy miss.
A talented RB alone would help everybody. Saquon force us to be in single high a lot and Hurts threw easy deep passes bc of it. The first TD was a prime example.
It’s time to load this offense back up and it starts with LT.
Finding a Left Tackle is a lot easier said than done. They've been struggling to find one ever since Eric Fisher got hurt 4 years ago. Kind of amazing they have found a way to win a couple of Rings and a conference title the last few years despite the constant instability at the LT spot. It would be nice if they could have some better luck at the LT spot in the coming years, such as Kingsley developing into a good one. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mr Ev:
No doubt. The way they lost the game though….can’t be elite and GOAT status then do that.
Eagles or Pats fan? Guessing Pats.
Brady lost in the playoffs to Joe Flacco on a day when Flacco went 4-10 for 34 yards and an interception. Brady threw 3 picks and lost that game by 19 points. Can't be a GOAT and lose in the playoffs like that!
Mahomes in the meantime has never not made the AFC championship game. His literal worst year is an AFC Championship game OT loss.
One thing that I believe is very important to remember is that football is a team game. I would say in each of the Chiefs SB appearances, the Chiefs have not had the best team. The Patriots almost always had the team that was physically better than the other team.
The Chiefs got physically dominated. I'm not sure there's anything the Chiefs could have done, putting in a backup LT and moving Thuney back to LG would have not made a difference. Both sides of the line were getting blown up. [Reply]
This right here!!! PM15 is my guy and I do not give two craps what the loser critics say. He is a better QB than Brady (period)…just like Tiger was a better golfer than Jack…sure Jack and Brady won more titles but that does not mean they were better…Tiger and Mahomes redefined their sports and the position.
His first 7 are unmatched in every category that matters. He can still be GOAT. 10 years to go for sure. The fact that he went to 3 straight after winning two prior is better than any QB has ever done. [Reply]
