Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy! [Reply]
Originally Posted by OneTallOrder:
Mahomes mission to be the GOAT has taken a big hit with the SB59 loss.
At HT I thought it could have been Mahomes time to comeback, like TB12 did when the Pats came back from 3-28 to win SB51. If you want to be considered the GOAT, you have to do very extraordinary things.
Also, Brady has never been embarrassed in a SB. All of his SB losses were close games lost by one score.
Are you retarded?
Brady would not have even got this team to a SB to lose.
Tom Brady in his 9th year in the league got destroyed in a WILD CARD game against the 9-7 Ravens.
Originally Posted by Bl00dyBizkitz:
Would you guys say it's time to start blaming somebody if Mahomes looks like an elite game manager for the 3rd straight year next year? Because I'm kinda there.
I've been patient, but Mahomes is a unicorn. Forcing him to be overly cautious takes away what makes him special in the first place. Thats gonna be one thing I look at very closely next year.
Maybe.
But you're not gonna like my 'somebody' very much... [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
He performs very well in the postseason so it’s not quite as bad overall, but yes, if he looks mid in the regular season for the third straight season I will start to get annoyed. I miss our QB being a fire-breathing dragon.
I would rather him be the guy that strikes fear into DCs hearts because he isn't afraid to sling it. That dimension of his game is almost completely gone. I'm not saying we need to go completely back to 2018 but we need to move the needle considerably back in that direction. [Reply]
I was going to stay away for my own sanity yet here I am...
Frankly, I'm tired of the whole GOAT conversation. How about we enjoy what is happening now and let history decide whom is the best? The eye test shows me that PM15 > TB12 at everything other than having a stacked roster and playing for half of his market value.
That said, this was one of Mahomes and Reids worst games ever. Against TB, the Chiefs had nothing they could do because they didn't have the players. Against Philly, the Chiefs didn't try anything different.
Say that he's distracted with family and 3-peat and whatever you want. PM15 was just bad. [Reply]
Originally Posted by crayzkirk:
I was going to stay away for my own sanity yet here I am...
Frankly, I'm tired of the whole GOAT conversation. How about we enjoy what is happening now and let history decide whom is the best? The eye test shows me that PM15 > TB12 at everything other than having a stacked roster and playing for half of his market value.
That said, this was one of Mahomes and Reids worst games ever. Against TB, the Chiefs had nothing they could do because they didn't have the players. Against Philly, the Chiefs didn't try anything different.
Say that he's distracted with family and 3-peat and whatever you want. PM15 was just bad.
People need to chill with the GOAT talk. It’s a sports debate show topic. There’s no answer and you’ll never change someone’s mind.
As a Chiefs fan first, my goal for the team is to get to 6 Lombardis. That’s a clear goal and much more attainable.
If/when they get there, no one can argue that accomplishment. They can try to diminish it, but it doesn’t matter. It’s a concrete accomplishment. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bl00dyBizkitz:
Try me. Mahomes? Andy? I dont mind either of those conversations.
Tom Brady won a championship in 2018 with Trent Brown, a cast-off RT who was forced to start at LT after their presumed starter was injured and lost for the season in camp. He had Marcus Cannon, past his prime and never very good to begin with, at RT. His IOL was Andrews, Mason and Thuney -- a good IOL, but not great. He was throwing to a washed Edelman, Gronk on his way out of the league and Josh Gordon. None of them had more than 850 yards receiving.
In 2015 he threw for 4700 yards and a 36/7 TD/INT ratio with Sebastian Volmer and a pile of scraps at LT along with 3 rookies on his interior line and that very same pretty average Marcus Cannon at RT. He was throwing to Gronk, Edelman (who missed about half the season) Danny Amendola and Brandon LaFell.
I've spent decades watching Brady, Manning and Montana MAKE their offensive linemen. And they never did that by running around with their hair on fire -- they did it by running the offense on time. All too often, Mahomes doesn't. That's when he gets in trouble. He was at his best THIS season when he was just working the offense and getting the ball out on time.
I just can't get over the deep shot he pulled down Sunday. A high/low, 2-man route combination designed to create a look that depended entirely what the safety does. He looked right at the play. He saw the safety sink on the 'low' with Kelce. He had Worthy even with Mitchell knowing full well how fast Worthy is.
The play did exactly what it was designed to do. And he just wouldn't throw the ball.
It was over right then. I mean it was over BEFORE then, but that was the moment that it was clear that he just wasn't sharp.
And as he demonstrated against Pittsburgh and Houston and even Buffalo - the rest of this is bullshit. I said it BEFORE the Buffalo game that the guy we start at OT barely even matters -- what matters is that Mahomes comes out confident and decisive. When he does, the rest of it takes care of itself. When he doesn't, all hell breaks loose and every weakness we have on the roster is exacerbated. When he's good, the offense is good. When he's bad, it isn't.
The problem with the Chiefs offense, for 2 seasons now, has been the consistency or lack thereof of Patrick Mahomes.
He's still incredibly young in QB years. And he's been under STUPID amounts of pressure. I understand why some of these things happen with him.
But if he has a 3rd straight year of it...well, he's a pretty big part of that throughput. And "He doesn't trust X" is just ridiculous at this point. The Mount Rushmore QBs were asked to find the trust and figure it out. And Mahomes BELONGS on that Mount Rushmore -- so why shouldn't we expect him to build that trust? We've seen lesser talents than him do it with worse weapons. Or with equally bad OL.
I don't give a shit where he stands in relation to Lamar or Allen or whatever. He's an historic tier guy and that's the standard he should be held to. And those guys? They figured it out. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Tom Brady won a championship in 2018 with Trent Brown, a cast-off RT who was forced to start at LT after their presumed starter was injured and lost for the season in camp. He had Marcus Cannon, past his prime and never very good to begin with, at RT. His IOL was Andrews, Mason and Thuney -- a good IOL, but not great. He was throwing to a washed Edelman, Gronk on his way out of the league and Josh Gordon. None of them had more than 850 yards receiving.
How is this any better what Mahomes did last year with Donovan Smith at LT and the cast he had at WR when he went on the toughest playoff road in NFL history (by DVOA) and won the SB as the underdog against otherwise much more talented teams?
The idea that there's any longterm problem with Mahomes is silly. He's completely fine. He had an excellent season again in 2024 after early September (when his LTs were getting him killed) until Sunday night (when his LT again was getting decimated over and over and over again).
Get him a productive left tackle that isn't getting blown up for the entire game and profit. [Reply]
Tom Brady won a championship in 2018 with Trent Brown, a cast-off RT who was forced to start at LT after their presumed starter was injured and lost for the season in camp. He had Marcus Cannon, past his prime and never very good to begin with, at RT. His IOL was Andrews, Mason and Thuney -- a good IOL, but not great. He was throwing to a washed Edelman, Gronk on his way out of the league and Josh Gordon. None of them had more than 850 yards receiving.
In 2015 he threw for 4700 yards and a 36/7 TD/INT ratio with Sebastian Volmer and a pile of scraps at LT along with 3 rookies on his interior line and that very same pretty average Marcus Cannon at RT. He was throwing to Gronk, Edelman (who missed about half the season) Danny Amendola and Brandon LaFell.
I've spent decades watching Brady, Manning and Montana MAKE their offensive linemen. And they never did that by running around with their hair on fire -- they did it by running the offense on time. All too often, Mahomes doesn't. That's when he gets in trouble. He was at his best THIS season when he was just working the offense and getting the ball out on time.
I just can't get over the deep shot he pulled down Sunday. A high/low, 2-man route combination designed to create a look that depended entirely what the safety does. He looked right at the play. He saw the safety sink on the 'low' with Kelce. He had Worthy even with Mitchell knowing full well how fast Worthy is.
The play did exactly what it was designed to do. And he just wouldn't throw the ball.
It was over right then. I mean it was over BEFORE then, but that was the moment that it was clear that he just wasn't sharp.
And as he demonstrated against Pittsburgh and Houston and even Buffalo - the rest of this is bullshit. I said it BEFORE the Buffalo game that the guy we start at OT barely even matters -- what matters is that Mahomes comes out confident and decisive. When he does, the rest of it takes care of itself. When he doesn't, all hell breaks loose and every weakness we have on the roster is exacerbated. When he's good, the offense is good. When he's bad, it isn't.
The problem with the Chiefs offense, for 2 seasons now, has been the consistency or lack thereof of Patrick Mahomes.
He's still incredibly young in QB years. And he's been under STUPID amounts of pressure. I understand why some of these things happen with him.
But if he has a 3rd straight year of it...well, he's a pretty big part of that throughput. And "He doesn't trust X" is just ridiculous at this point. The Mount Rushmore QBs were asked to find the trust and figure it out. And Mahomes BELONGS on that Mount Rushmore -- so why shouldn't we expect him to build that trust? We've seen lesser talents than him do it with worse weapons. Or with equally bad OL.
I don't give a shit where he stands in relation to Lamar or Allen or whatever. He's an historic tier guy and that's the standard he should be held to. And those guys? They figured it out.
Yeah I'm there, too.
I dont think he's beyond reproach at all, but obviously he gets infinite rope to hang himself with because he is the reason we're where we are today.
It's really up to Mahomes what he wants to be. Others have talked about it. I hate agreeing with BWillie, truly I do, but Mahomes crushing the Millers like we've seen him do is going to get more and more spooky once he hits his 30s. That kind of diet and body won't age well. Same as it is with his footwork, his confidence in the pocket, his willingness to throw in tight coverage and just sling it when it's there. Brady and Manning just made their offense in their later years, like you said. They had complete control over every little thing and ran it exactly how they wanted. Can Mahomes do the same? What will he do in his 30s, what will he change or not change to take that next step?
It's all up to him, thats why I can't get too mad. It's so entirely out of anyone's hands. If he struggles, we'd cry for more OL, more receivers, new OC, new HC, new this, new that to try and fix him. No one can. It's all up to him. And if he does, hell yeah, we've got a ton more years of this to enjoy. If not, well, maybe he regresses and we might be lucky to get to that summit again. But what we had now was really special and ill always treasure that. [Reply]
Originally Posted by UChieffyBugger:
He lost to NICK FOLES. YES NICK FOLES.
Brady isn't to blame for losing to Nick Foles. He threw for over 500 yards in that game with 3 TDs and no INT. It was probably Brady's best Super Bowl performance.
He needs a sports psychologist or someone else who he can work with and figure out how to keep his composure in games where he doesn’t get off to a good start.
These days, it’s very easy to tell early in the game whether we’re going to see good Mahomes or bad Mahomes.
He drops his eyes, his feet are all over the place, he runs around out of clean pockets or steps up into sacks. He clutches the ball like on that deep shot he didn’t take to Worthy.
If you see him doing these things in the first quarter it’s going to be one of those days. As soon as I saw him doing those on the second drive on Sunday, I had a feeling the game was over. You just don’t see him overcome that in the same game he starts doing it.
He has to find a way to knock himself out of that mid game. [Reply]
But you're not gonna like my 'somebody' very much...
I’ve said a few times over the past year, the way this whole team was about nothing but the threepeat — and they were whether they say it or not — I’m so damn glad that’s over.
It invited complacency and boredom throughout the season. Think it had an impact on our focus and attention to detail weeks 1-18.
If we win Sunday, we get another season of that at minimum — “four in a row!!”
I wish they’d won, but I’ll be damn glad to get back to focusing on exectution and earning your keep week after week. Mahomes the game manager was needed in 2023 with that defense and lack of receivers. But ENOUGH.
This offense better resemble a lot more 2022 than 2024 coming next fall. That’s what we want and what we need. And much will fall on Patrick to make it happen. [Reply]
