Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy! [Reply]
Yes, wins and rings are what matter most. But the longer his streak of subpar regular season play continues the more it’s goi to tarnish his legacy. There’s also an entertainment factor, isn’t it simply more entertaining to occasionally see the 4-5 TD, 400 yard games we used to see from him and are now seeing from other top QBs? Right now he’s looking like Eli Manning, putting up so so numbers in the regular season but turning it on in the postseason. This year+ streak of regular season play well below the standard he has previously set needs to end sooner than later. Yes it’s not all his fault and the team needs to quit fucking around with giving him shitty protection and subpar weapons. I’d also personally be in favor of a strong pivot soon from a defensive team back to a high flying offensive squad, particularly if we manage to three peat. Yes I love winning but the team was also more entertaining when we were regularly scoring 30+ a game. Spend heavily on offense. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
He’s actually right. 2022 our offense was #1 in scoring and yards.
It was the best offense in football.
It was similar to this seasons, but better.
Not explosive at all, just inexorable. A water over rocks sort of thing.
And this offense can get there if it just executes. It's not going to be the 2020 offense because the personnel just isn't there. But there's no reason at all it couldn't be at least as good as the 2022 offense if Pat cleans some stuff up, the offensive line gets more consistent and the pass catchers get a little more precise within the offense.
27 points should be a weekly target mark for them. It's been a struggle to get there, but the talent is on the roster to manage it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni:
5200 passing yards 41 TD 30 PPG? Piss off :-) In what world is that not Elite play by Pat?
Damn some of you are clueless to what his typical level of play has been in his career compared to the shit this year. There's no comparison.
There really isn't, no.
And his play really is the biggest difference between 2024 and 2022. He just didn't miss the kind of balls he's missed this year.
And it's not like OBJ was a brick wall over there. Nor was Wylie as good as Taylor is now (and the IOL was younger and less experienced).
In terms of pass catchers, the only downgrade realistically should be at TE due to Kelce just being older. But Hopkins can/should outperform JJSS and Worthy can/should be better than MVS was. Even Perine can do as much or more than McKinnon did that year.
It really does come down to PM playing at the same level he played at in 2022.
Originally Posted by ThrobProng:
His first season as a starter was better. 5000 and 50 with one fewer regular season game.
Nah.
Watch the games. He wasn't better at all. Defenses weren't geared to stop him, the OL was better and his weapons were substantially more dynamic.
He wasn't a better player in 2018 than he was in 2020 or 2022. He simply had more support (because, duh - he was essentially free).
He wasn't really reading defenses at all and a substantial chunk of his numbers came on freelance plays and/or simple blown coverages that came from teams not realizing that he was a different animal than anything they had on tape for KC.
It demonstrates exactly why stats don't tell the story. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
There really isn't, no.
And his play really is the biggest difference between 2024 and 2022. He just didn't miss the kind of balls he's missed this year.
And it's not like OBJ was a brick wall over there. Nor was Wylie as good as Taylor is now (and the IOL was younger and less experienced).
In terms of pass catchers, the only downgrade realistically should be at TE due to Kelce just being older. But Hopkins can/should outperform JJSS and Worthy can/should be better than MVS was. Even Perine can do as much or more than McKinnon did that year.
It really does come down to PM playing at the same level he played at in 2022.
To this point he simply hasn't.
This started with people arguing with me about the 10 to 12 wide open TDs he's missed. Everyone misses those!! That's the difference between 2022 and this garbage of resorting to needing a blocked FG to beat Bo Nix at home...ugh. Those last few words made me vomit in my mouth a little. [Reply]
Watch the games. He wasn't better at all. Defenses weren't geared to stop him, the OL was better and his weapons were substantially more dynamic.
He wasn't a better player in 2018 than he was in 2020 or 2022. He simply had more support (because, duh - he was essentially free).
He wasn't really reading defenses at all and a substantial chunk of his numbers came on freelance plays and/or simple blown coverages that came from teams not realizing that he was a different animal than anything they had on tape for KC.
It demonstrates exactly why stats don't tell the story.
I didn't mean that Mahomes was better in 2018, although he was more productive. I meant that the offense as a whole was better in 2018. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni:
This started with people arguing with me about the 10 to 12 wide open TDs he's missed. That's the difference between 2022 and this garbage of resorting to needing a blocked FG to beat Bo Nix at home...ugh
Welcome to the club.
A handful of us have been trying to say this for the better part of 18 months now.
And then when he locks it in in the playoffs and the offense looks exponentially better, people seem to struggle to figure out why.
The answer has ALWAYS been Patrick Mahomes. As he goes, so do the Chiefs. As well it should be. He's going to get the credit for our successes - he deserves that. He should also wear plenty of the blame when we scuffle on offense.
He's leaving points on the board pretty much weekly. But in the end, that's a good thing. Because (as I said last year) if there's anybody in football you can bank on to play his best when you need it most, that's the guy. And if THAT'S your choke-point, you're in pretty damn good shape. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThrobProng:
I didn't mean that Mahomes was better in 2018, although he was more productive. I meant that the offense as a whole was better in 2018.
I can buy that. I'm just not sure of the relevance.
The offense had the sliders on Rookie mode that year because it was the only team in football trying to do what it was doing. Nobody was prepared for it.
I think the 2020 offense was actually better because PM was so good that year. But I wouldn't want to try to make a living off the difference.
The 2022 offense writ large wasn't as good but we saw the best version of Mahomes we'd ever seen over a prolonged period (or have seen since). [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Welcome to the club.
A handful of us have been trying to say this for the better part of 18 months now.
And then when he locks it in in the playoffs and the offense looks exponentially better, people seem to struggle to figure out why.
The answer has ALWAYS been Patrick Mahomes. As he goes, so do the Chiefs. As well it should be. He's going to get the credit for our successes - he deserves that. He should also wear plenty of the blame when we scuffle on offense.
He's leaving points on the board pretty much weekly. But in the end, that's a good thing. Because (as I said last year) if there's anybody in football you can bank on to play his best when you need it most, that's the guy. And if THAT'S your choke-point, you're in pretty damn good shape.
Yup and we should be able to freely point that out that he's struggling compared to his typical standards without a wall of excuses in response :-)
I mean and we almost saw it bite us against Baltimore and SF with that LONG drive drought without a TD. Good thing Lamar sucks in the playoffs because he wears himself out chasing regular season stats. Especially the bullshit of staying in blowouts racking up cheap MVP numbers. But that's another conversation. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni:
This started with people arguing with me about the 10 to 12 wide open TDs he's missed. Everyone misses those!! That's the difference between 2022 and this garbage of resorting to needing a blocked FG to beat Bo Nix at home...ugh. Those last few words made me vomit in my mouth a little.
I've read through this thread and it looks like an overwhelming majority agree with you. :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThrobProng:
His first season as a starter was better. 5000 and 50 with one fewer regular season game.
There was also a 1,300 yard rusher in the backfield.
He put up those numbers because of how bad the defense was. Expecting that with this defense is not happening. 2022 was still an elite season despite lower numbers. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni:
Yup and we should be able to freely point that out that he's struggling compared to his typical standards without a wall of excuses in response :-)
I mean and we almost saw it bite us against Baltimore and SF with that LONG drive drought without a TD. Good thing Lamar sucks in the playoffs because he wears himself out chasing regular season stats. Especially the bullshit of staying in blowouts racking up cheap MVP numbers. But that's another conversation.
I think a lot of his struggles are mental right now. Not sure why, but he doesn’t seem to have that YOLO gear that he had in previous years, to include 2022. Not sure if it’s only a LT not being very good thing that has him playing like this or if it’s something else. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
There really isn't, no.
And his play really is the biggest difference between 2024 and 2022. He just didn't miss the kind of balls he's missed this year.
And it's not like OBJ was a brick wall over there. Nor was Wylie as good as Taylor is now (and the IOL was younger and less experienced).
In terms of pass catchers, the only downgrade realistically should be at TE due to Kelce just being older. But Hopkins can/should outperform JJSS and Worthy can/should be better than MVS was. Even Perine can do as much or more than McKinnon did that year.
It really does come down to PM playing at the same level he played at in 2022.
To this point he simply hasn't.
I'm with ya. I can't tell you how many times these past two years I have thought, "damn, was Andrew Wylie and Orlando Brown Jr. really that much better than what we got now?...."
And I just can't bring myself to believe that's the main reason. Those tackles struggled too their fair share.
You can split the blame up however you want, but the eye test says Mahomes' just isn't playing up to his standard. Like this should be the first year of his career he doesn't earn a Pro Bowl bid, and I'll almost be upset if he does, because it just is not deserved.
That said, just like last year, I expect his best when we need it most. And maybe that's part of the issue. This team is in a constant state of wanting to get on with the postseason already.
