Originally Posted by Mile High Mania:
I don't know Kranz... but, I can only imagine he's just doing what happens here and stirring the pot. And, you're taking the bait.
I stated this a few weeks ago, you just cannot compare eras in the NFL. The 70s and 90s and no are just so very different. At the time of Elway's retirement, he was in the top spot or top 3 of most every single metric that mattered.
Since then, the top dozen spots are filled with guys drafted after 1999 with a Marino, Tarkenton, Elway sprinkled around. It's a completely different game.
And, the SBs... suggesting it was 'just Davis' is weak. Dan Reeves fell apart in the big games with his planning, just go look at the SBs. Shanahan came in and put a real team in place, yes Davis was a huge part, but it was not just him.
Plus, you gotta figure in the gifting from the NFL... cap cheating, vaseline... likely some bribery in there, maybe some extortion. Yeah?
Right? Elway played in a time where they used to penalize crowds for making noise. Comparing him to todays QB’s is a joke. These guys would eat him alive athletically today. He’d be a poor man’s Alex Smith in todays league with his skill sets. [Reply]
Originally Posted by POND_OF_RED:
Right? Elway played in a time where they used to penalize crowds for making noise. Comparing him to todays QB’s is a joke. These guys would eat him alive athletically today. He’d be a poor man’s Alex Smith in todays league with his skill sets.
Don't think so...IMO, Elway could easily play in today's NFL. He had the arm and style of play to do so. He also could run and throw on the run, and made a living when things broke down. He lifted the play of his team. Dude is an all time great who could play in any era. He was was a terrible GM and a bad QB talent evaluator, but he was one hell of a player. [Reply]
Originally Posted by POND_OF_RED:
Right? Elway played in a time where they used to penalize crowds for making noise. Comparing him to todays QB’s is a joke. These guys would eat him alive athletically today. He’d be a poor man’s Alex Smith in todays league with his skill sets.
No they wouldn't. It's basically illegal to tackle the QB anymore. Guys like Mahomes, Murray, and Jackson would get there shit pushed in by the likes of Hayes, Burt, Taylor, Thomas, White, Long, Lambert, Dent, etc. (all guys Elway played against). [Reply]
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
No they wouldn't. It's basically illegal to tackle the QB anymore. Guys like Mahomes, Murray, and Jackson would get there shit pushed in by the likes of Hayes, Burt, Taylor, Thomas, White, Long, Lambert, Dent, etc. (all guys Elway played against).
Elway had very pedestrian numbers for the first 10 years of his career, and that’s compared to his contemporaries.
Don’t see why you lump Mahomes with those other QBs. Elway was only 215lbs himself. So Mahomes has about a minimum 15lbs on Elway, Lamar, and Murray. And he doesn’t get to bitch about crowd noise, or bitch about the organization that drafted him…or cheat to win his only ring on the back of a Hall of Fame running back [Reply]
QBs of the last 20 years would be in for a reckoning of epic proportions if they played in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. The style of game and the way they protect QBs and WRs now is totally different.
You can't get away with half the things they did back then now. That's apparent to anyone that is older than 30.
Any of those top caliber QBs from 30+ years ago would do very well in this era of the NFL and how the rules have changed to enhance offensive production.
The elites today would probably do quite well still in that 70s/80s era, but you would not see the seasonal production with yards and TDs that you see now.
Would Mahomes suck in the 80s? No... but, he would have a much more brutal experience. That's all I'm saying. The statistical craziness you see now didn't happen in the 70s/80s for a reason. You had 2-3 guys that put up numbers on occasion like you see now, but it was few and far between.
Elway's first 10 years of production has to do a lot with Reeves as well. Reeves was very conservative - that was obvious when Phillips and then Shanahan took over... and the passing games were evolving in the mid 90s too.
Again, overall - Elway retired top 3 in most every meaningful category and is now behind QBs from the last 20 years. The game changed.
Put Elway, Tarkenton, Fouts, Moon, Marino, Kelly, Staubach and a few other in the game now during their prime years and they are all consistently in that near 5k yard 40TD+ mark. If you think otherwise, you're just kidding yourself. [Reply]
Originally Posted by TEX:
Don't think so...IMO, Elway could easily play in today's NFL. He had the arm and style of play to do so. He also could run and throw on the run, and made a living when things broke down. He lifted the play of his team. Dude is an all time great who could play in any era. He was was a terrible GM and a bad QB talent evaluator, but he was one hell of a player.
One hell of a player who *gasp* threw a lot of picks.
And for all of the late game Elway Magic moments he had, there were several epic choke job games from him.
Mahomes now has ONE of those games on his resume. ONE. Where he is the reason his team lost.
Originally Posted by Best22:
Elway had very pedestrian numbers for the first 10 years of his career, and that’s compared to his contemporaries.
Don’t see why you lump Mahomes with those other QBs. Elway was only 215lbs himself. So Mahomes has about a minimum 15lbs on Elway, Lamar, and Murray. And he doesn’t get to bitch about crowd noise, or bitch about the organization that drafted him…or cheat to win his only ring on the back of a Hall of Fame running back
Gee...what happened at around ten years? Dan Reeves offense consisted of running on 1st and 2nd down and Elway bail us out on 3rd down.
Weight has nothing to do with it. It's about the rules and the defenders on the other side of the ball.
The crowd noise thing was not an impact and the rule was in place until like 2007 and enforcing it didn't work. Just stop.
No one cheated anything...just stop. And I am not gonna address the nonsense about Davis and what-not. [Reply]
This image tells the tale for me when you view QBs by eras... at the time of his retirement, Elway was #2 in total passing yards - #3 in total passing TDs and #1 in QB wins all-time.
Look at all those names now that are in the top 10-12.. and there is a slew of QBs coming up the ranks. The game changed.
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
Moon would destroy records in this era. Hell...he destroyed records in his own era when including his CFL 5-6 Grey Cups.
Moon was always a complete badass. I have ZERO understanding of how he wasn't drafted. How do you let a guy like that slide by you for 12 or so rounds? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
Moon would destroy career records in this era. Hell...he destroyed career records in his own era when including his CFL 5-6 Grey Cups.
Heh... the CFL kinda was this era, although I never watched any of those games. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
Moon was always a complete badass. I have ZERO understanding of how he wasn't drafted. How do you let a guy like that slide by you for 12 or so rounds?
Well...there is an easy assumption, but I don't get it either. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mile High Mania:
QBs of the last 20 years would be in for a reckoning of epic proportions if they played in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. The style of game and the way they protect QBs and WRs now is totally different.
You can't get away with half the things they did back then now. That's apparent to anyone that is older than 30.
Any of those top caliber QBs from 30+ years ago would do very well in this era of the NFL and how the rules have changed to enhance offensive production.
The elites today would probably do quite well still in that 70s/80s era, but you would not see the seasonal production with yards and TDs that you see now.
Would Mahomes suck in the 80s? No... but, he would have a much more brutal experience. That's all I'm saying. The statistical craziness you see now didn't happen in the 70s/80s for a reason. You had 2-3 guys that put up numbers on occasion like you see now, but it was few and far between.
Elway's first 10 years of production has to do a lot with Reeves as well. Reeves was very conservative - that was obvious when Phillips and then Shanahan took over... and the passing games were evolving in the mid 90s too.
Again, overall - Elway retired top 3 in most every meaningful category and is now behind QBs from the last 20 years. The game changed.
Put Elway, Tarkenton, Fouts, Moon, Marino, Kelly, Staubach and a few other in the game now during their prime years and they are all consistently in that near 5k yard 40TD+ mark. If you think otherwise, you're just kidding yourself.
Elway also just wasn't as good as people thought he was.
A great QB? Yes. HOF worthy? Yes. A name we should be considering for top 10 and someone who would totally absolutely torch today's NFL? Fuck no. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
Elway also just wasn't as good as people thought he was.
A great QB? Yes. HOF worthy? Yes. A name we should be considering for top 10 and someone who would totally absolutely torch today's NFL? **** no.
I think you're in the minority there, but that's cool... everyone has their opinions. It totally makes logical sense to retire top 3 in those categories and not be as good as people thought. #legit [Reply]