Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy! [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Great post. Although I still don’t want to hang so much of this on Nagy when we know Reid micromanages the offense. Nagy probably isn’t going anywhere and I am certain Reid turns this around next year. And we’ll be reminded that the OC is still largely a figurehead in Andy’s offense.
What if Reid has given more control to Nagy this season, because he sees retirement soon, and doesn't want to acknowledge that, because it would really bury Nagy.
I don't know, but to me the offense has looked nothing like it has the last 5 years, but a whole lot like the Alex Smith offense.
If any part of that is Nagy, and you have to believe some of it is, then he has to go.
He has to go far, far away from this team, and never, ever come back. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic:
What if Reid has given more control to Nagy this season, because he sees retirement soon, and doesn't want to acknowledge that, because it would really bury Nagy.
I don't know, but to me the offense has looked nothing like it has the last 5 years, but a whole lot like the Alex Smith offense.
If any part of that is Nagy, and you have to believe some of it is, then he has to go.
He has to go far, far away from this team, and never, ever come back.
Same offense...not the same execution. Simple as that. I know it's easier to blame the play calling and feel better about it, but it's not. It's the receivers, it's the line, and it's even Pat himself that's caused the drop off. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic:
What if Reid has given more control to Nagy this season, because he sees retirement soon, and doesn't want to acknowledge that, because it would really bury Nagy.
I don't know, but to me the offense has looked nothing like it has the last 5 years, but a whole lot like the Alex Smith offense.
If any part of that is Nagy, and you have to believe some of it is, then he has to go.
He has to go far, far away from this team, and never, ever come back.
I don’t buy it. If there’s any truth to this it would be really really hard to believe he wouldn’t take more of the wheel after a few games of bumbling around on offense.
This has looked like an Alex smith offense because that’s what worked for us last year so we doubled down on it. I get the gamble. But defenses have it better figured out and, imagine that, we reached a point where maybe running an offense heavily reliant on passing targets catching then making plays through YAC isn’t the best long term strategy for a qb with generational arm talent.
We’re fitting round pegs into square holes with our WRs. That is by far our biggest issue [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brother:
Same offense...not the same execution. Simple as that. I know it's easier to blame the play calling and feel better about it, but it's not. It's the receivers, it's the line, and it's even Pat himself that's caused the drop off.
No, it is play calling. Not entirely, obviously, but the play calling is terrible.
The slants, shallow crossers, or even a good old fashioned swing pass, are all but absent in the current offense.
Hell, even the amount of pre-snap motion we use is way down.
I will agree that Alex Smith ran it better than Mahomes is, but Smith had better tackles, and running was actually a big part of his game at times.
But, Mahomes' poor play is all because of the subpar play of the tackles and receivers, and drops overall. He is constantly concerned with getting his ankles rolled up on, because the tackles suck, that he is almost in scramble mode by default, or at least in don't-stand-still-in-the-pocket-ever mode.
And when he sees open guys, and come on, he sees them, he doesn't throw it because he doesn't trust what they are doing.
This has never been, and will never be a If Patrick Was Playing Better The Receivers Would Be Better situation. Never.
Its has always been a Mahomes Looks Worse Than Previous Years Because The Receivers and Tackles Are Bad situation.
In this "down" year, he is currently 4th in the NFL with 3,938 yards, and he is 6th in the NFL in TD passes. The fact that this team has enough yards for him to be 4th is a testament to how far he has dragged this sorry ass offense. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic:
No, it is play calling. Not entirely, obviously, but the play calling is terrible.
The slants, shallow crossers, or even a good old fashioned swing pass, are all but absent in the current offense.
Hell, even the amount of pre-snap motion we use is way down.
I will agree that Alex Smith ran it better than Mahomes is, but Smith had better tackles, and running was actually a big part of his game at times.
But, Mahomes' poor play is all because of the subpar play of the tackles and receivers, and drops overall. He is constantly concerned with getting his ankles rolled up on, because the tackles suck, that he is almost in scramble mode by default, or at least in don't-stand-still-in-the-pocket-ever mode.
And when he sees open guys, and come on, he sees them, he doesn't throw it because he doesn't trust what they are doing.
This has never been, and will never be a If Patrick Was Playing Better The Receivers Would Be Better situation. Never.
Its has always been a Mahomes Looks Worse Than Previous Years Because The Receivers and Tackles Are Bad situation.
In this "down" year, he is currently 4th in the NFL with 3,938 yards, and he is 6th in the NFL in TD passes. The fact that this team has enough yards for him to be 4th is a testament to how far he has dragged this sorry ass offense.
Dude there is motion on most every play.. And all we do is throw it underneath.. Watch some game videos.. It’s the personal that makes this offense work.. And we are lacking in that.. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Kman34:
Dude there is motion on most every play.. And all we do is throw it underneath.. Watch some game videos.. It’s the personal that makes this offense work.. And we are lacking in that..
We throw passes to the sidelines, not slants, or shallow crossers, no drag routes. Or at least we rarely do, but when we do they work. We will get one or two good plays, and it won't get called again for the rest of the game, or longer. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Dante84:
Mahomes' lower performance is a symptom, not a cause.
The contributing factors and causes are:
1. Receivers are not skilled enough and/or smart enough to get open regularly, and if/when they occasionally do, they lead the league in dropped passes. The result is a lack of trust, which causes PM to hesitate or hold back on throws he'd otherwise make.
2. The O-line and skill players regularly lack discipline, evidenced by the unit being among the most penalized in the league. The result is longer distances to convert first downs, ultimately leading to more stalled drives. In an attempt to convert, Mahomes is often in scenarios where the defenses know what's coming, reducing the element of surprise and increasing the difficulty of his passing windows and the amount of time required before throwing. This naturally causes a drop-off in success rate.
3. The play calling has been poor at times this year, given points 1 & 2. The play calling has not adjusted to or accepted the fact that points 1 & 2 are major issues. By maintaining the same level of risk and trust in players' intelligence & skill levels from previous years, and not accounting for these limitations, often times the plays have a poor chance of success. This creates a vicious circle for Patrick, allowing very little room for error.
It was Nagy's responsibility to identify these issues with the WR & OL units earlier in the season, and he did not. After multiple weeks of the same issues, the responsibility shifted to Andy to step in, and it doesn't appear that he has.
Yes, Veach and the scouts missed on some key players and opportunities. But that part of the organization could not have foreseen such a drop off from last year, and so while they do bear some blame, the majority lies on the coaching staff.
To simply say "Mahomes sucks this year" without acknowledging the circumstances the coaching staff has put him in is both reductive and ignorant.
Sounds like we are attempting to resolve problem number 3 today; let’s see how that works out.
Man the Chiefs have already been running one of the more predictable, basic offense and the plan is to slim it down more..?
Yeah, I mean it just goes to show that our WRs aren’t very bright because they started simplifying things a few weeks ago. And these WRs still can’t figure out how to do Sesame Street shit like line up properly. It’s a good move but it’s also going to make our offense more predictable. Also don’t love that it takes away mahomes’ superb improv skills but at this point they are a liability because his targets are always on a different page.
So… I think this’ll work. It’s still frustrating it had to come to this. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BWillie:
But the players will forget how to play football and won't be ready to go in the playoffs without being in sync! - Chiefsplanet
They haven’t been in sync on offense for weeks, I’d say none of them need time off [Reply]
