Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy! [Reply]
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties:
This can be true, also. But calling this play and making this throw in that situation is dumb shit.
You KNOW he saw the DB and his leverage. He NEEDED to know their DB is going to come breaking down on it. His leverage should’ve had him coming back and winning the ball. Period
There is only so many times a QB can make chicken salad out of chicken sh**. Is he playing great? No. But, I would like to know who could possibly do better with these types of receivers. All the D needs to do is double Kelce. Nobody else gets open.
I know we won the SB last year..But with hindsight, maybe we should have paid Tyreek. He is a once in a lifetime type receiver that makes life easier for everyone. [Reply]
Have been wondering if Mahomes is playing with an upper body injury. Maybe not sore enough to be on the list, but enough to zap some his velocity? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
Honestly, the Chiefs had WRs running open all day and Pat wasn't seeing many of them. Could be due to concerns with the line, including bailing on clean pockets, but something is up with Pat.
It gets a bit old reading lazy takes about the WRs when they're getting open just fine.
It’s amazing that people find it puzzling that a qb with a wr unit that has made as many glaring mistakes as they have made has “something up with him.”
Yeah he’s shell shocked, frustrated, and hesitant. It’s not rocket science.
It’s only a lazy take because it’s so glaringly obvious. [Reply]
Pat is amazing but he's not without his weaknesses. All QBs get rattled by pressure, especially pressure early in the game. Alot of times Pat will thrive under pressure, but when he doesn't, he REALLY gets rattled and get in his own head and he can't seem to snap out of it mid game.
And instead of seeing ghosts and getting rid of the ball asap, Pat sees ghosts and holds on to the ball for forever and bails clean pockets to try and engineer an easier, higher % throw out of structure instead of just taking what's there in structure. I think he starts to press and gets sped up going through reads and bails too early.
And yes, the WRs are terrible and the OTs are average at best and have many games where they're garbage, so it's tough to run a high volume straight drop back passing offense with little help from the run game and play action passing.
And while it definitely is better and smarter to throw to open windows rather than tight windows, and open receivers more than contested (especially with our last in the league in contested catch % receivers per usual), I still think Pat doesn't attempt as many tight window throws as he should with the arm talent he has, ESPECIALLY this year when our receivers have trouble getting separation consistently.
Instead of rifling a throw into a tight window in structure, Pat will pass it up and leave the pocket to find a higher % throw into an open window instead. With Pat, it's usually smart to do that, especially with the type of receivers we've had, but that hasn't been the case as much this year.
I also think it has alot to do with Andy never liking his QBs making low % throws and coaching it out of them some. It's just his offensive philosophy. That's why you don't see contested catch guys in his offenses and it's why you don't see his QBs throwing lower % throws deep down the sideline or into tighter windows as much as other offenses.
I think it becomes more of a problem when Pat gets rattled though as he becomes hesitant and lacks the confidence in himself it seems to make those throws with the perfect ball placement. While Pat's accuracy is very good, his ball placement isn't a huge strength of his. It suffers some because of how he plays and because his footwork isn't great because of how he plays.
So when he gets rattled, I think he not only doesn't have a ton of confidence in his receivers or OTs, but he loses his confidence in his ball placement too and doesn't want to put the ball in harms way in tighter windows in structure.
Every QB has weaknesses, and I think those are Mahomes'. And because he has nothing around him really, it's showing up more this season. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chieftain:
Mahomes played his best football last playoffs when he hurt his foot and was forced to stay in the pocket. His big weakness which he has yet to fix is staying patient in the pocket. He always has the urge to move around after every snap when he doesn't need to. He needs to process the game while staying patient in the pocket, same way Brady did. Again, it's coaching. Andy just lets him be himself and that's not working.
I disagree completely. His Oline is over-rated bullshit, and Mahomes has made his career over making magic outside of the pocket. You can tell he is uncomfortable in the pocket and rightfully so. Watch the pocket collapse and Pat tucks the ball and wonders around, it's NOT working.
Until Mahomes starts threatening opposing defenses with his feet, he's going to be owned in the pocket, and not to his fault when his WR's can't get any separation or catch the ball. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Priest31kc:
Pat is amazing but he's not without his weaknesses. All QBs get rattled by pressure, especially pressure early in the game. Alot of times Pat will thrive under pressure, but when he doesn't, he REALLY gets rattled and get in his own head and he can't seem to snap out of it mid game.
And instead of seeing ghosts and getting rid of the ball asap, Pat sees ghosts and holds on to the ball for forever and bails clean pockets to try and engineer an easier, higher % throw out of structure instead of just taking what's there in structure. I think he starts to press and gets sped up going through reads and bails too early.
And yes, the WRs are terrible and the OTs are average at best and have many games where they're garbage, so it's tough to run a high volume straight drop back passing offense with little help from the run game and play action passing.
And while it definitely is better and smarter to throw to open windows rather than tight windows, and open receivers more than contested (especially with our last in the league in contested catch % receivers per usual), I still think Pat doesn't attempt as many tight window throws as he should with the arm talent he has, ESPECIALLY this year when our receivers have trouble getting separation consistently.
Instead of rifling a throw into a tight window in structure, Pat will pass it up and leave the pocket to find a higher % throw into an open window instead. With Pat, it's usually smart to do that, especially with the type of receivers we've had, but that hasn't been the case as much this year.
I also think it has alot to do with Andy never liking his QBs making low % throws and coaching it out of them some. It's just his offensive philosophy. That's why you don't see contested catch guys in his offenses and it's why you don't see his QBs throwing lower % throws deep down the sideline or into tighter windows as much as other offenses.
I think it becomes more of a problem when Pat gets rattled though as he becomes hesitant and lacks the confidence in himself it seems to make those throws with the perfect ball placement. While Pat's accuracy is very good, his ball placement isn't a huge strength of his. It suffers some because of how he plays and because his footwork isn't great because of how he plays.
So when he gets rattled, I think he not only doesn't have a ton of confidence in his receivers or OTs, but he loses his confidence in his ball placement too and doesn't want to put the ball in harms way in tighter windows in structure.
Every QB has weaknesses, and I think those are Mahomes'. And because he has nothing around him really, it's showing up more this season.
A lot of truth to this. But it all just points to having the wrong WRs for what we need to fix this. Even if he did all the things you say he’s afraid to do, our WRs are so bad at execution it’s risky. He can’t throw tight window passes because our WRs are easily the worst in the league at contested catches to the point where our WRs horrendous instincts make decent enough passes sitting ducks. He is afraid to take what he’s given because a short gain leads to an insurmountable 3rd and long.
We have catch and run players and we tripled down on this. And that worked before because the scheme made it easy last year for these guys to get easy catches with reasonable space. But they’re not good when these guys have to do elementary school work to create before the catch. Running good routes, reading the defense, finishing routes, adjusting to the ball, and fighting to get the contested catch. I think it’s fair to say all our WRs not named rice aren’t just bad, they’re very bad to terrible on these things. And even rice for all the great he’s done makes plenty of mistakes in these areas too. [Reply]
Originally Posted by lcarus:
Was the wind really that bad yesterday? If so that explains a lot of that game. The Raiders couldn't complete a pass for 3 quarters either. I know their QB isn't good but I've seen him complete some pretty good passes in other games.
No. The wind was not a factor. It was actually good football weather. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
That was the timing route I was referring to in another thread. JWat doesn’t come back, which is why the INT happens. That wasn’t on Pat.
Honestly, it was just a damn lazy route by Watson, almost like he didn't expect the ball to be thrown his way.
On that type of throw, it has to be like a little curl and comeback from the receiver. Why in the world does Watson jump backwards? Hell, why does he even jump at all? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
That was the timing route I was referring to in another thread. JWat doesn’t come back, which is why the INT happens. That wasn’t on Pat.
I thought this real time. That "WTF why didn't you push hard back to the ball you jackass?"
Watson is one of my most hated Chiefs. Dude is absolutely garage all the time. [Reply]
JT O'Sullivan has pointed out a few plays where Mahomes and Kelce aren't on the same page. Looks like what happened there. Kelce read it as he should go in and Mahomes read it as he should have went out.
It's to the point where if they're making these mistakes consistently, it's just time to throw out the whole options concept for this offense and just run a standard offense with dedicated routes. There will still be adjustments for depth and that kind of thing, but no more having the WRs and TEs have to read the defense and figure out what route they should run. Either just run the play as called or wait for Patrick to tell you to change your route. [Reply]