Chiefs The Bills take the AFC this seasom - Page 257

Pfft If the defense could win the AFCCG for Allen. He would fumble the Lamar Hunt Trophy off the stage. On to a third stringer's head & they would forfeit the Super Bowl. To have candle light service outside the injured players hotel room
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Originally Posted by Vladimir_Kyrilytch:
Give me a break. Mahomes is "close to" Brady? Brady isn't fit to wash Mahomes' jock strap. Brady was nothing but hype and fraud and cheating. He wasn't even good. He was okay.

Ask yourself this - if Adam Vinateiri misses a few kicks, if that garbage tuck rule call isn't made, and if the Patriots didn't cheat so rampantly, would Brady have ever won a Super Bowl? You saw the absolutely unbelievably rigged reffing in the Chiefs vs. Bucs Super Bowl. Intercepting Brady and having flags come out afterwards to cancel out the interception. Refs with kids named after Brady. Passes 114 rows up out the back of the end zone for PI first downs. The only way Brady could even move the ball was from flags. That was an abomination. The day the music died.

I'm tired of people acting like Brady is anywhere NEAR Mahomes level. He wasn't. Never was.

I'm not arguing with your sentiment, but Brady is recognized as the GOAT because of 7 rings (even if rosters were absurdly loaded and he never won with worse than a Top 10 D in Pts per Drive), but I also recognize that Mahomes resume' with 3 rings is still lighter than Brady's resume' with 7. (Though I don't think it will be for long, I think once Mahomes reached 4 with this current stretch of utter dominance that the argument shifts)

Hell, Peyton was more talented than Brady, but Brady is recognized as greater due to his success, (partially because of all those years in Indy where Peyton had much lesser Defenses)

At the end of the day, a substantial majority of people won't care about the flags, the tuck rule, or anything. Hell, Brady made a joke in a commercial about the tuck rule calling it actually a fumble a year or two ago, and people laughed it off.

The barometer of success is defined by two things to the public. The eye test, and the resume'. The flags and other nuances will be lost to time; fairly or unfairly.

Regardless, this won't matter because Mahomes will be almost universally recognized as the GOAT by the end of his career.
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu:
Personally I’m never actually criticizing Allen much. I’m the one who’s been saying for two years he is far better than Burrow and is the second best QB in the league. It’s the Bills fans though who think because he’s second best that it automatically means he’s is on the same tier as Mahomes and they twist themselves into knots trying to show it that I find a tad ridiculous.

It's unfortunate, but I feel no guilt whatsoever lobbing criticism at Allen. His idiot dickbag fans made it this way.
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Originally Posted by kcgreene:
I'm not arguing with your sentiment, but Brady is recognized as the GOAT because of 7 rings (even if rosters were absurdly loaded and he never won with worse than a Top 10 D in Pts per Drive), but I also recognize that Mahomes resume' with 3 rings is still lighter than Brady's resume' with 7. (Though I don't think it will be for long, I think once Mahomes reached 4 with this current stretch of utter dominance that the argument shifts)

Hell, Peyton was more talented than Brady, but Brady is recognized as greater due to his success, (partially because of all those years in Indy where Peyton had much lesser Defenses)

At the end of the day, a substantial majority of people won't care about the flags, the tuck rule, or anything. Hell, Brady made a joke in a commercial about the tuck rule calling it actually a fumble a year or two ago, and people laughed it off.

The barometer of success is defined by two things to the public. The eye test, and the resume'. The flags and other nuances will be lost to time; fairly or unfairly.

Regardless, this won't matter because Mahomes will be almost universally recognized as the GOAT by the end of his career.

Manning, for as good as he was in the regular season just wasn’t the same guy in the postseason. Had he not been carried to his second SB he falls into the same category as Favre/Rodgers (currently). Lots of regular season success and MVPs, but very little postseason hardware to show for it.
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Originally Posted by ToxSocks:
If Mahomes wasn't in the league, Allen and maybe even Jackson would have SB rings already.

Real shit.

So when we bag on these guys, it's kinda unfair. It's kinda bullshit.

These are great talents. They just happened to exist in the Mahomes era. Kinda fucked for them, but oh well.

It's not unfair. They've been choking piece of shits when it counts and i will continue to laugh at them all. They are also VERY likely to get hurt and their styles of play don't translate to long careers. Those windows are just about closed in Buffalo and Baltimore. They aren't fit to be listed in the same breath as Pat and I won't allow you to do that.
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Josh Allen is really good and he has improved a lot since he came into the league. Personally, I'm thankful for Josh Allen because he's keeping Patrick on his toes. Patrick knows that if he doesn't work really hard to maintain his spot at the top of the pyramid, Allen will be there to move up. Josh Allen is exactly the kind of guy that we need out there to push Patrick and the Bills are exactly the kind of team we need out there to push the Chiefs.

Here's to the Bills. We wouldn't be as good as we are if it weren't for them pushing us so hard.
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Originally Posted by kcgreene:
I'm not arguing with your sentiment, but Brady is recognized as the GOAT because of 7 rings (even if rosters were absurdly loaded and he never won with worse than a Top 10 D in Pts per Drive)

Which rosters do you think were absurdly loaded? I'm genuinely curious. Seems like most people consider the Moss teams that failed to win a SB the only loaded Patriots rosters. I didn't follow them closely enough to know.

Edit: Forgot to mention the Tampa Bay team. They were loaded.
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Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
Which rosters do you think were absurdly loaded? I'm genuinely curious. Seems like most people consider the Moss teams that failed to win a SB the only loaded Patriots rosters. I didn't follow them closely enough to know.

I'm more referring to the defenses being consistently top of the league along with great OLines. The Patriots never had traditionally elite WRs outside of Moss, but they found ways to exploit TE matchups (Not to mention Gronk) and found how to use guys amazingly in the slot, and Brady had guys that may not have been All Pros, but they vibed (Edelman).
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Originally Posted by kcgreene:
I'm more referring to the defenses being consistently top of the league along with great OLines. The Patriots never had traditionally elite WRs outside of Moss, but they found ways to exploit TE matchups (Not to mention Gronk) and found how to use guys amazingly in the slot, and Brady had guys that may not have been All Pros, but they vibed (Edelman).

Brady was lucky as hell with defense and OL. Not sure he ever had a line that wasn't borderline elite.
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Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
Brady was lucky as hell with defense and OL. Not sure he ever had a line that wasn't borderline elite.

I'll have to dig through my prior posts... I have one of some research that was a breakdown of every defense Brady ever had in Point Allowed per Drive... I'll have to see if I can find it again and post it here, seems fitting with how the convo has turned.
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If Flacco can win one during Brady's reign. Allen has a chance away from Buffalo & at the very least free from McStupidface. The Ravens' history is not the Bill's
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Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
Brady was lucky as hell with defense and OL. Not sure he ever had a line that wasn't borderline elite.

Originally Posted by kcgreene:
I'll have to dig through my prior posts... I have one of some research that was a breakdown of every defense Brady ever had in Point Allowed per Drive... I'll have to see if I can find it again and post it here, seems fitting with how the convo has turned.

Found it. Also, I found a more reliable source of information for the statistics regarding this, so I've updated this appropriately (a few of the numbers I previously posted were wrong, and I have the correct information now) (Statmuse is kinda shitty the more I use it, so basically I have switched strictly to Pro Football Reference, regardless of how difficult it can be to find some items on there), but the argument still remains strong and the point remains valid. Reposting Below with a Spoiler tag to not clog up the thread

Spoiler!

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Originally Posted by CasselGotPeedOn:
Anyone have their autism to English dictionary handy?

0dd T0dd was the bouncer punching training camp legend that graced our team as a b/u for a good 4 or 5 years. Decent arm, looked great in the preseason, kept on the bench by Trent Green.
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It is mildly amusing how we seamlessly transition from laughing at Bills fans for saying Mahomes isn't as athletic and how he's had a lot of help from coaching, Kelce, Tyreek, a top defense last season; while ignoring his huge football brain and leadership and so forth..., to bashing Brady because he benefited from defense, coaching, etc; and didn't do things Mahomes could but was very smart, dedicated, etc.
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Originally Posted by Bearcat:
It is mildly amusing how we seamlessly transition from laughing at Bills fans for saying Mahomes isn't as athletic and how he's had a lot of help from coaching, Kelce, Tyreek, a top defense last season; while ignoring his huge football brain and leadership and so forth..., to bashing Brady because he benefited from defense, coaching, etc; and didn't do things Mahomes could but was very smart, dedicated, etc.

Oh, I'm not bashing Brady. Maybe I should clarify my take. I think that Brady is currently the GOAT, however, I think that Mahomes has achieved more with less, and data and eyetest quantify such in my opinion.

Because Mahomes has done more with less (for the time period in which he's had the opportunity to do such) I don't think he has to match Brady in terms of rings to be considered the GOAT. I think if he gets a 4th ring while maintaining his statistical output consistently, the real convo begins.

This was more compiled because too many people are ring counters and that's all (which none of those people say Bill Russell is the best NBA player ever). It's also why I gave Manning and Brees credit for winning with worse Defenses. Because it does mean something. It doesn't mean everything, but it does mean something.

Originally I wrote it out to focus on Allen and Lamar's defenses in contrast to Mahomes, I added Brady when it became apparent that Mahomes is no longer competing against his contemporaries, he's competing against legends of the game.

EDIT: I should clarify. I think Brady is the GOAT QB, I personally am more inclined to see Jerry Rice as the GOAT of football in general when you compare him to the other legends and top players ever of his position.

I think Mahomes will end his career as the GOAT Though, so this post will be outdated soon enough.

I also think there is a difference between the "Greatest of All Time" and "The Best of All Time". Greatness implies accomplishment. Best implies talent and ability (In my opinion)
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