Originally Posted by Bearcat:
When the point being made for months now has "he makes everyone around him a little worse" when he plays lazy ball, it's just an awful leap in logic to take a game without him and say "hey, they didn't have HIS 15 points/10 rebounds!".
Uh, we aren't talking about HIS stats and how they apply to the final score, we're talking about him dragging down everyone else.
If you have a slug on defense, of course it's going to make everyone look bad when you're 4 on 5... if the one guy you're feeding the ball is not getting position or not going hard to the basket, of course that's going to take away from assists and so forth.
You' basically have to take performance with and without him, then subtract his points/rebounds/etc from it, because nobody is arguing the NET product is worse. The entire damn offense runs through him, of course it'll be worse when he's not even there.
And then when he busts his ass, guys are picking up more assists or easy buckets, playing better overall defense, etc.... pretty obvious stuff.
First of all, someone has argued the net product is worse (or would be the same).
He can get lazy at times, but even that's blown way out of proportion. Part of what's perceived as laziness is just being a big, unathletic oaf. It shouldn't shock anyone when a speedy 6'0 guard beats him to a loose ball.
Dickinson's presence alone makes everything easier for everybody else. They're getting way more open looks than they would otherwise.
Obviously everyone would love to see him giving 110% every second of every game, but it's weird to harp on this constantly when a) we're not seeing 110% effort from the rest of the team at all times, and b) it's the least of the team's worries.
Put some high-level scorers around him, and trust me, no one would care that he's not diving on the floor after every loose ball. Especially since he'd be averaging 25 ppg because teams wouldn't be able to double and triple team him on every possession. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
He can get lazy at times, but even that's blown way out of proportion. Part of what's perceived as laziness is just being a big, unathletic oaf. It shouldn't shock anyone when a speedy 6'0 guard beats him to a loose ball.
Obviously everyone would love to see him giving 110% every second of every game, but it's weird to harp on this constantly when a) we're not seeing 110% effort from the rest of the team at all times, and b) it's the least of the team's worries.
Agreed he's a big unathletic oaf. I don't think it's blown out of proportion when so many people point out him going hard to the basket or doing things that aren't crazy uncommon (we aren't talking about diving into the stands for loose balls or anything) is like seeing Bigfoot... "that one game that one time Dickinson hustled into the lane for a big dunk"... that sort of thing. That's just hustle, even if he is slow.
I don't think it matters a ton in the grand scheme or anything... he obviously needs elite players around him, unlike a truly elite player who wills themselves to results (as has been discussed a few times). It’s not like anyone is saying this is a FF team if only Dickinson gave a shit.
It's just an uninspired, boring team not even worth watching over the past couple seasons. All his fault? Of course not. Some just expected more from all the hype and NIL$$$, the very least of which was being a better leader and giving a shit about Kansas basketball. [Reply]
Pretty sure if Dickinson wanted to slap the floor, he'd lose interest about half way down while beginning to doubt he could even make it down that far, then end up falling on his face, taking the opportunity to make it look like a flop, and then kicking someone in the shins because he got big mad about it.
Not sure that would be a net positive for the team, unless maybe Adams trips over him in the process and has to take a few weeks off. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
I don't think it matters a ton in the grand scheme or anything... he obviously needs elite players around him, unlike a truly elite player who wills themselves to results (as has been discussed a few times). It’s not like anyone is saying this is a FF team if only Dickinson gave a shit.
You're going off the rails again. He's routinely double/triple teamed and is still the 3rd or 4th best player in the country according to Kenpom. If that's not "results," I guess I don't know what that means.
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
It's just an uninspired, boring team not even worth watching over the past couple seasons. All his fault? Of course not. Some just expected more from all the hype and NIL$$$, the very least of which was being a better leader and giving a shit about Kansas basketball.
I'd say 90% not his fault. The Colorado game is the perfect example. He played one of the best games you'll see a college player play, and they barely squeaked out a win vs a 2-15 team. That should've clued people into where the actual problems lie.
I think the "not giving a shit about Kansas basketball" stuff is way off base. Based on his podcasts and interviews, it's obvious that he takes pride in playing at KU. More so than most even. [Reply]
Originally Posted by sedated:
JFC this KU thread has turned into the NBA thread - endless arguing about 1 player
Wonder how many KU fans would come back to this thread regularly if it wasn't for 2 or 3 in here... maybe we can discuss net positive impacts of endless opinion spamming with a complete lack of understanding for nuance. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
Wonder how many KU fans would come back to this thread regularly if it wasn't for 2 or 3 in here... maybe we can discuss net positive impacts of endless opinion spamming with a complete lack of understanding for nuance.
If only some would stop trashing the team's best player by far on the regular in here. Alas... [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
If only some would stop trashing the team's best player by far on the regular in here. Alas...
It's actually a pretty hot topic in CBB, so obviously it's going to be a hot topic here.
I opened reddit for all of 30 seconds without scouring for CBB stuff (or maybe Chrome is feeding reddit information :-) ) and some guy is asking about him.
That's a fairly common thread on CBB, whether from KU fans or other team fans.
Everyone in the country has such bizarre takes, I guess.
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
It's actually a pretty hot topic in CBB, so obviously it's going to be a hot topic here.
I opened reddit for all of 30 seconds without scouring for CBB stuff (or maybe Chrome is feeding reddit information :-) ) and some guy is asking about him.
That's a fairly common thread on CBB, whether from KU fans or other team fans.
Everyone in the country has such bizarre takes, I guess.
For some reason Dickinson's team had success when he played with good players with spacing on Michigan (instead of players who opponents don't guard at KU). I don't make a habit of going on there, but I wonder if Reddit has pondered why that could be yet. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
For some reason Dickinson's team had success when he played with good players with spacing on Michigan (instead of players who opponents don't guard at KU). I don't make a habit of going on there, but I wonder if Reddit has pondered why that could be yet.
There's a lot of good discussion in that thread about his performance with future NBA draft picks versus now, and everything in between... there's a lot of nuance and things for people to think about, if that's a capability outside of box scores and opinion spamming. [Reply]
