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Nzoner's Game Room>****The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread*****
Dante84 10:09 PM 04-23-2020
More to come! (I'll clean it up later - info dump into the OP)

(mod edit, all the goodness is in the spoiler tags)
Spoiler!

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Marcellus 08:18 PM 11-10-2021
Chiefs are rushing for less than 4YPC since CEH went out, enough said.
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tredadda 08:32 PM 11-10-2021
The problem with CEH is that those who were upset with him being drafted at #31, are still upset and trying to justify themselves because he's not the second coming of Marshall Faulk. He's a solid, if unspectacular runner who has been underused in the passing game. His return will definitely help this offense as it does not appear like teams respect Williams or Gore.
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TLO 08:34 PM 11-10-2021
I hope he can come back this week. He'll gash the Raiders.
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Easy 6 08:36 PM 11-10-2021
Originally Posted by tredadda:
The problem with CEH is that those who were upset with him being drafted at #31, are still upset and trying to justify themselves because he's not the second coming of Marshall Faulk. He's a solid, if unspectacular runner who has been underused in the passing game. His return will definitely help this offense as it does not appear like teams respect Williams or Gore.
They don't respect CEH, and his 14 yard highlights either
[Reply]
RealSNR 09:15 PM 11-10-2021
Originally Posted by DaNewGuy:
Nice take

You’re crowning this guy’s ass waaaaay too early.

This is the same shit I had to do with Daurice Fountain. Everybody else is either bad or has been around too long and people are desperate for fresh new and exciting, so they cling to mediocrity like Derrick Gore if they so much as flash just a tiny bit.

Maybe Gore is our best back. Maybe fountain really was our 2nd best receiver. None of that shit fucking matters if they don’t get their name called, and that’s where people need to chill the fuck out.

How many carries did Gore get last week? Did he get any at all when Darrell Williams was buttsexing all of his carries for one yard in the second half?

Ya’ll got waaay too excited if you think this much that he’s shown is proof of anything yet. The Chiefs through the years have had some truly putrid RBs have big games. Let’s wait until Gore has even one of those games before we consider putting him in Frank Moreau territory.

Until then, he may as well be Jackie Battle
[Reply]
JakeF 01:12 AM 11-11-2021
Originally Posted by tredadda:
The problem with CEH is that those who were upset with him being drafted at #31, are still upset and trying to justify themselves because he's not the second coming of Marshall Faulk. He's a solid, if unspectacular runner who has been underused in the passing game. His return will definitely help this offense as it does not appear like teams respect Williams or Gore.
Teams don't fear/respect CEH more than Williams, probably Gore either.

In fact, i think Williams is showing a hard running style that can get an extra few yards. That's not something we really see from CEH.

Gore has looked pretty good in his limited time as well.
[Reply]
JakeF 01:18 AM 11-11-2021
Against the Packers;

Williams played 35 snaps: 19 carries/70 yards, 3.6avg and 3 rec/7 yards
Gore played 10 snaps: 3 carries/13 yards, 4.3avg and 1 rec/6 yards
[Reply]
dlphg9 02:18 AM 11-11-2021
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
ok, but you can't throw out the big plays. If you did that, Barry Sanders isn't a hall of famer.

This cherry picking of stats is ridiculous. Those plays happened, he took them the distance, and they absolutely count.

some runs get stuffed. Some go for a couple yards. If those count, so do the long ones.
You could go and take out the longest run in each season of Jamaal Charles career and he goes from 5.4 ypc to 5.1 ypc. Do that to Damien Williams 2019 season and he goes from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc.

Williams rushes that year broke down like this

(18%) 20 rushes went for -6 to 0 yards
(43%) 48 rushes went for 1 to 3 yards
(26%) 29 rushes went for 4 to 6 yards
(9%) 10 rushes went for 7 to 10 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 11 to 15 yards
(0%) 0 rushes went for 16 to 83 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 84 to 91 yards

So 61% of his rushes went for -6 to 3 yards. That's horrible.

Let's do another exercise to show just how shit he was. We will take away his 2 long runs, but also we will take away the bad ones. All 12 of his playa that went for -1 yard or less. That brings him to 358 yards on 97 carries which comes out to 3.7 ypc.

Sometimes cherry picking stats can actually show you a more clear picture. I took away his 2 best runs and 12 of his worst runs and it took him from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc. That year the 4.5 ypc was good for 20th out of 45 qualified RBs and the 3.7 ypc drops him to 39th out of 45.

Now let's do it with his 2 best and 2 worst runs being removed. 107 carries for 334 yards and 3.1 ypc. Which is pretty well horrendous. So yeah I'm cherry picking, but anyway you slice it his 2019 regular season was an absolute mirage.

He does however get a pass due to his post season and Superbowl performance. I just like to discuss these things.
[Reply]
dlphg9 03:02 AM 11-11-2021
Originally Posted by JakeF:
Teams don't fear/respect CEH more than Williams, probably Gore either.

In fact, i think Williams is showing a hard running style that can get an extra few yards. That's not something we really see from CEH.

Gore has looked pretty good in his limited time as well.
CEH is 10x the RB that Darrel Williams is. Darrel Williams is slow as dog shit. He's had 123 combined carries between last year and this year and his longest runs are 12 and 13 yards. So far this year

(68%) 57 out of 84 of his carries have went for 4 or less yards.(54%) 45 of his 84 carries were for 3 yards or less.

That means he's only picking up 5+ yards on 32% of his runs

This is with the best run blocking line we've had since Vermeil and teams are doing everything in their power to allow us to run.

CEH on the other hand has 65 carries

(40%) 26 have been for 3 yards or less
(58%) 38 have been for 4 yards or less

So 42% of his runs have went for 5+ yards.

CEH has been more productive and then when you look at the run D of the teams that each got the majority of carries it looks even better for CEH

CEH

Browns 3rd in rush yards allowed
Baltimore 5th in rush yards allowed
LA Chargers 32nd in rush yards allowed and CEH gashed em
PHI 20th in rush yards allowed
Buffalo 4th in rush yards allowed, got hurt

Williams

I'll give him PHI because he had 10 carries

PHI 20th
WAS 11th
NYG 22nd
GB 16th

I'm no fan of CEH. I didn't like a 1st round RB and he just doesn't look very good, but Williams is just bad. He's the worst RB that we have had in decades and done absolutely nothing to earn any playing time besides perform fellatio on Andy or something like that. I'm not sure why Andy gets infatuated with JAGs.

I'm unsure why you would think any team would fear/respect Darrel Williams non talented ass. However, you are really dumb, so that's probably it.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 07:01 AM 11-11-2021
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
You could go and take out the longest run in each season of Jamaal Charles career and he goes from 5.4 ypc to 5.1 ypc. Do that to Damien Williams 2019 season and he goes from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc.

Williams rushes that year broke down like this

(18%) 20 rushes went for -6 to 0 yards
(43%) 48 rushes went for 1 to 3 yards
(26%) 29 rushes went for 4 to 6 yards
(9%) 10 rushes went for 7 to 10 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 11 to 15 yards
(0%) 0 rushes went for 16 to 83 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 84 to 91 yards

So 61% of his rushes went for -6 to 3 yards. That's horrible.

Let's do another exercise to show just how shit he was. We will take away his 2 long runs, but also we will take away the bad ones. All 12 of his playa that went for -1 yard or less. That brings him to 358 yards on 97 carries which comes out to 3.7 ypc.

Sometimes cherry picking stats can actually show you a more clear picture. I took away his 2 best runs and 12 of his worst runs and it took him from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc. That year the 4.5 ypc was good for 20th out of 45 qualified RBs and the 3.7 ypc drops him to 39th out of 45.

Now let's do it with his 2 best and 2 worst runs being removed. 107 carries for 334 yards and 3.1 ypc. Which is pretty well horrendous. So yeah I'm cherry picking, but anyway you slice it his 2019 regular season was an absolute mirage.

He does however get a pass due to his post season and Superbowl performance. I just like to discuss these things.
No, no,no. You really can't, and no it doesn't give you a clearer picture about anything at all because all of this ignores context that's entirely relevant such as surrounding cast, opponent, and situational football. This is why I get really irritated when people want to take a RB's ypc as some sort of be-all-end-all stat. That doesn't tell anywhere near the whole story on the individual's talent level.

You can have an entirely successful 2.0 yard run for a first down... You can have a failure with a 7 yard run on 3rd and 8. In 2020, the offensive line was so bad for most of the season that nobody was going to have much success running the ball, I don't care who was back there.

RB's are a little harder to evaluate because their down-to-down performance is so dependent on multiple other players, coaches, offensive tendencies, quality of opponent- as well as each situation. YPC is only a small part of the equation. Maybe some equation like QBR that would factor in down and distance, first downs gained, yards after contact and four minute offense when you're really just trying to burn the clock and everyone in the stadium knows you're running every play, not really trying to gain max yardage.

If anything, no running play is 'schemed' to go for a long TD. That takes a defensive breakdown and/or a remarkable individual effort. So if ANYTHING, you absolutely should NEVER throw that out, because if a player is solely responsible for ANY running play, their speed and/or elusiveness in the open field would be more responsible for that play than any 5.0 yard sweep.
[Reply]
Shields68 09:00 AM 11-11-2021
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties:
Chiefs worst runs come from under-center formations.
They have not consistently attempted to lineup under center. Some of the problem is with the retirement of Sherman they no longer have a very good lead back to play.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 09:47 AM 11-11-2021
The worst runs come from under center because everyone in the stadium knows we're about to run the ball.

It's not a good thing for us to do, as we might as well just tell the defense what's coming before the snap.
[Reply]
Dunerdr 09:47 AM 11-11-2021
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
You could go and take out the longest run in each season of Jamaal Charles career and he goes from 5.4 ypc to 5.1 ypc. Do that to Damien Williams 2019 season and he goes from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc.

Williams rushes that year broke down like this

(18%) 20 rushes went for -6 to 0 yards
(43%) 48 rushes went for 1 to 3 yards
(26%) 29 rushes went for 4 to 6 yards
(9%) 10 rushes went for 7 to 10 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 11 to 15 yards
(0%) 0 rushes went for 16 to 83 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 84 to 91 yards

So 61% of his rushes went for -6 to 3 yards. That's horrible.

Let's do another exercise to show just how shit he was. We will take away his 2 long runs, but also we will take away the bad ones. All 12 of his playa that went for -1 yard or less. That brings him to 358 yards on 97 carries which comes out to 3.7 ypc.

Sometimes cherry picking stats can actually show you a more clear picture. I took away his 2 best runs and 12 of his worst runs and it took him from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc. That year the 4.5 ypc was good for 20th out of 45 qualified RBs and the 3.7 ypc drops him to 39th out of 45.

Now let's do it with his 2 best and 2 worst runs being removed. 107 carries for 334 yards and 3.1 ypc. Which is pretty well horrendous. So yeah I'm cherry picking, but anyway you slice it his 2019 regular season was an absolute mirage.

He does however get a pass due to his post season and Superbowl performance. I just like to discuss these things.
Hey stop. People here dont like the truth about Damien.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 09:55 AM 11-11-2021
There were three critical plays not made by runningbacks on Sunday that probably get made by CEH.

The 3rd and 2 pass to McKinnon where he got isolated 1v1 against a CB. If he makes the CB miss, he goes for 25 yards (the playcall was good - there was NOBODY behind him). Even if he squares his shoulders and gets low, he plows forward for 5 yards and a first. Instead McKinnon got his feet knocked out from under him and went straight down. CEH is shifty - I'm not sure he gets the clean miss for 25 but he absolutely gets down and drives forward for a 1st down at about the 50 yard line.

The 3rd and 1 run from Gore was just AWFUL. They had an easy 1st down there if he just follows his pulling G (Thuney). Instead he bounced left, into the teeth of the defense and the extra man that opened up by Thuney's pull. Stuffed at about the 50, punt.

And the throw to Williams near the goal-line. I was floored he didn't get that angle but he's just soooooo slooooooow. That was a walk-in TD for a genuine starting caliber back. CEH gets that one easy because he's up to speed pretty quickly. Williams, OTOH, just spun his wheels, lost the angle and was brought down. After the subsequent false start we had to kick a field goal.

That's 4 points and 2 first downs at mid-field, all attributable to a different 'alternative' to CEH and all plays that I'm fairly certain CEH makes.

CEH isn't an elite runningback but he's not a lousy one. And our alternatives are, frankly, pretty lousy.

The Chiefs shouldn't have drafted CEH where they did but they still need him.
[Reply]
cmh6476 09:57 AM 11-11-2021
so is he the bellcow this week?
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