I think we can all agree the offense has not been up to par this season.
At this point, there's only so much we can do about it. Our best WR got injured and is missing the season, our best RB is out until December, our LT situation is messy and our stud TE is looking his age.
So, is this who we are now? Is 30 points a game a distant memory?
What can be done?
(Andy Reid is lurking in this thread, so make sure you're on your best behavior.) [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Hardman arriving and MVS kinda un****ing himself a bit down the stretch made a bigger difference than you realize.
It's what made the emphasis on Rice and Kelce possible because it brought back the credible threat of a downfield passing attack.
That's what I was saying then and will continue saying - it doesn't take MUCH. You don't need to bomb it on every drive. 3-4 deep shots/gm and another 3-4 in that deep intermediate range (15-20 yards). 6-8 shots at/beyond 15 yards downfield should be enough to get them conscious of it.
Provided that you hit on about half of 'em. And when they're in sync, spam them a little bit; dial 'em up a bit more.
Yeah I agree that there’s something to pushing even if it’s not always there just to pin the defense back. Mecole was largely very bad in the playoffs but at least showed the threat of going deep. Mvs did thankfully put together a good stretch at the right time, but to your point he unfucked himself where earlier in the year he was pretty bad on his own merits.
Until worthy matures it’s going to feel like early last season where we took shots we weren’t overly confident in just to loosen the defense. It’s gonna take worthy either starting to click or Hollywood coming back for us to use this as less of a decoy option and that’s where we can really cook [Reply]
Originally Posted by mr. tegu:
The “whole league has shifted” argument is always dumb when Mahomes is sitting at 20th in YPA.
Been saying THAT for 2 years as well.
The "League Has Shifted" into a defensive style that teams got away from 20 years ago because it was getting obliterated.
There's no reason it can't be obliterated again - you just need to have a little bit of time and space.
And hit the throws that are available to you. Are you gonna get SEC vs. Mountain West windows to throw into? No, no you are not. But you're gonna get windows where good ball placement will get you chunk plays.
We saw 3 QBs put the ball into those windows regularly last night.
Thus far ours hasn't done it as often as we need him to in order to have a productive offense. Call it trust or rust if you want, but that's the reality of it.
We'll go as far as Mahomes will take us. If he's hitting those throws (and first he has to start ATTEMPTING them), we'll be fine. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Yeah I agree that there’s something to pushing even if it’s not always there just to pin the defense back. Mecole was largely very bad in the playoffs but at least showed the threat of going deep. Mvs did thankfully put together a good stretch at the right time, but to your point he unfucked himself where earlier in the year he was pretty bad on his own merits.
Until worthy matures it’s going to feel like early last season where we took shots we weren’t overly confident in just to loosen the defense. It’s gonna take worthy either starting to click or Hollywood coming back for us to use this as less of a decoy option and that’s where we can really cook
And I will ask you for a third time - apart from simply coming into the season having convinced yourself that Worthy's a rookie who can't be a deep threat, what you have actually seen to convince yourself of it.
I've seen nothing to support your position here. At all. He gets good releases. He uses his speed well (even NOT using his speed at times to create space). He is getting to open areas of the field.
There has been NOTHING we've seen from Worthy in the pre-season or in the games thus far to suggest he needs to 'mature'.
We need to actually use him.
This really feels like the same crap people were saying about Rice. "Oh the offense is struggling because we lost JJSS and Rice can't do what JuJu could..."
Which was just flat-ass wrong. Mahomes just wasn't throwing the damn ball. Once he did, we saw everything Rice had to offer. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
And I will ask you for a third time - apart from simply coming into the season having convinced yourself that Worthy's a rookie who can't be a deep threat, what you have actually seen to convince yourself of it.
I've seen nothing to support your position here. At all. He gets good releases. He uses his speed well (even NOT using his speed at times to create space). He is getting to open areas of the field.
There has been NOTHING we've seen from Worthy in the pre-season or in the games thus far to suggest he needs to 'mature'.
We need to actually use him.
This really feels like the same crap people were saying about Rice. "Oh the offense is struggling because we lost JJSS and Rice can't do what JuJu could..."
Which was just flat-ass wrong. Mahomes just wasn't throwing the damn ball. Once he did, we saw everything Rice had to offer.
When did I say he can’t become a deep threat. I said for now he is raw. And knowing Andy’s history he’s not going to rush that. 1/3 of his routes are go routes and many others are routes moving him across the formation. He’s figuring out his routes and spacing. It will take time. I mean cam Taylor Britt called it that he’s a go route guy and we didn’t do anything to really show otherwise vs cincy
Before rice was rice he was dropping a lot of passes and making subtle bad route adjustments. The difference between rice and skyy is that rice quickly learned from these mistakes. Worthy probably will too. Like rice worthy showed he will probably mature way faster than Andy is willing to let him early on. Until then he is largely a clear out guy and every time we talked about Mvs being wide open all the time but we saw something different when the ball actually went in the air. Worthy will get there but for now he is probably going to be more effective doing mecole hardman things stretching the field wide versus vertical [Reply]
If we want to press and target worthy often just to prove the threat of it, I’m open to it. I just don’t think it’s going to have nearly the kind of early success rate we think. And given how every down is crucial now in an offense that needs long sustained drives, it’s unfortunately a risk that has started to feel costly when it doesn’t work out [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Nick Jacobs and Matt Derrick pretty much confirmed that it’s abundantly clear that Mahomes does not trust the LT and he’s pressing.
The playcalling seems to suggest that they don’t trust the LT either
I also think Pat has become somewhat risk averse. Early in his career he had to be Superman because the D wasn't very good now that is not the case. So I think he would rather not try risky throws unless he absolutely has to. We saw this in the AFCCG and they all admitted they just tried to not turn the ball over so they could win the game.
We know he can do it when he wants to, that pass to Rice over 2-3 guys the other night was a thing of beauty. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Nick Jacobs and Matt Derrick pretty much confirmed that it’s abundantly clear that Mahomes does not trust the LT and he’s pressing.
The playcalling seems to suggest that they don’t trust the LT either
I mean, as much as I'm one of the glass half full guys that believes this is going to get fixed as the season goes on, there's no way it's going to get fixed if we keep calling these horizontal plays to Rice/Worthy to protect our LT. They have to be challenged to protect Mahomes for long enough to get the ball out, because Mahomes throwing downfield is our main win condition.
I still DO think it's gonna get fixed, but if it's Week 8-9 and the playcalling is still the same, that's when I'm gonna start panicking. [Reply]
They trusted Suamataia too much. Then they overcorrected when he predictably got his ass beaten like a drum and pivoted to a dude with much less upside and gave him a ton of help to boot.
Brown and Pacheco getting injured sucks. That's football. The 'plan' at LT, however, has sucked fucking shit thus far. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch:
They trusted Suamataia too much. Then they overcorrected when he predictably got his ass beaten like a drum and pivoted to a dude with much less upside and gave him a ton of help to boot.
Brown and Pacheco getting injured sucks. That's football. The 'plan' at LT, however, has sucked fucking shit thus far.
It's awfully strange to me that the backup plan for Kingsley was to just bench him.
"Either your good enough to go against a premier edge rusher on your own in your 2nd NFL start...or you need to sit ass."
Um...okay.
I feel like they should've had a Plan B ready to go in that game. And the Plan B shouldn't have been Morris, but rather some schematic shift designed to help out your high-ceiling young LT a bit while he gets used to these monstrosities that play NFL DE these days. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
When did I say he can’t become a deep threat. I said for now he is raw. And knowing Andy’s history he’s not going to rush that. 1/3 of his routes are go routes and many others are routes moving him across the formation. He’s figuring out his routes and spacing. It will take time. I mean cam Taylor Britt called it that he’s a go route guy and we didn’t do anything to really show otherwise vs cincy
Before rice was rice he was dropping a lot of passes and making subtle bad route adjustments. The difference between rice and skyy is that rice quickly learned from these mistakes. Worthy probably will too. Like rice worthy showed he will probably mature way faster than Andy is willing to let him early on. Until then he is largely a clear out guy and every time we talked about Mvs being wide open all the time but we saw something different when the ball actually went in the air. Worthy will get there but for now he is probably going to be more effective doing mecole hardman things stretching the field wide versus vertical
Okay.
So "Andy doesn't trust rookie WRs" 2.0.
Cool.
It was wrong then. It's wrong now. I mean if we're going with "Rice dropped a lot of passes" it's clear you're just repeating tired old saws that didn't have any more merit then than they do now.
Rice dropped 2 balls in his first 10 games last season. And you're resorting to "He wasn't ready because he dropped a lot of passes..."
Just trying to speak the same old arguments into existence. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Been saying THAT for 2 years as well.
The "League Has Shifted" into a defensive style that teams got away from 20 years ago because it was getting obliterated.
There's no reason it can't be obliterated again - you just need to have a little bit of time and space.
And hit the throws that are available to you. Are you gonna get SEC vs. Mountain West windows to throw into? No, no you are not. But you're gonna get windows where good ball placement will get you chunk plays.
We saw 3 QBs put the ball into those windows regularly last night.
Thus far ours hasn't done it as often as we need him to in order to have a productive offense. Call it trust or rust if you want, but that's the reality of it.
We'll go as far as Mahomes will take us. If he's hitting those throws (and first he has to start ATTEMPTING them), we'll be fine.
What's nice is Reid can pull out his 20+ year old playbook and go to town! Another nice advanctage in having a HC that has been there and done that! [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
It's awfully strange to me that the backup plan for Kingsley was to just bench him.
"Either your good enough to go against a premier edge rusher on your own in your 2nd NFL start...or you need to sit ass."
Um...okay.
I feel like they should've had a Plan B ready to go in that game. And the Plan B shouldn't have been Morris, but rather some schematic shift designed to help out your high-ceiling young LT a bit while he gets used to these monstrosities that play NFL DE these days.
I consider Matt Derrick to be a solid source of Chiefs info. I think he does have a source or two on the building.
He was pretty assertive in his recent pod that Kingsley wasn’t ready and needed to work on technique and he will be back at some point, and when he does come back it’s gonna be for good.