Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider:
Dickinson is a minus defender. Does he offset that with his rebounding and scoring? Not when KJ is in the game for sure because we then have two "bigs" who are defensive liabilities.
The numbers actually show KU is better defensively with Dickinson on the floor than not.
This was from November, but you'll see he remains just outside the top 10 still (13). It turns out being that tall has its benefits on the defensive side too.
Originally Posted by Mr. Plow:
Nobody is saying Dickinson isn't a solid to good player, but you would think at 7'2" 260 lbs. you see a little bit more dominance out of him. He definitely needs good players around him to take full advantage of his size..... aaaaand here we are, right back at KJ playing 32+ minutes a game.
You have to go back to Devon Dotson in 2020 to find a player more "dominant" statistically than Dickinson within this program.
I'll say it again, but if he was in McCormack's role playing with those 2022 wings on that championship team, he'd have been absolutely beloved in this program instead of what he is for reasons largely out of his control. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
The numbers actually show KU is better defensively with Dickinson on the floor than not.
This was from November, but you'll see he remains just outside the top 10 still (13). It turns out being that tall has its benefits on the defensive side too.
Does it count the times that hes so slow to rotate that easy baskets are made or an easy 3 is made? Or hes so slow he can't get down the court, at all on transition...even sequences that arent even really transition just guys moving kinda fast. All of these analytics are hugely subjective.
There is a reason every single team including the Michigan teams underperformed every year and why Dickinson is not a pro prospect. He is not bad. He is not awful. Simply and overrated player because he doesn't play winning basketball compared to the stats he produces.
I'm not so sure we would even get worse if Hunter never played again and Bidunga played 30 mpg. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
I'll say it again, but if he was in McCormack's role playing with those 2022 wings on that championship team, he'd have been absolutely beloved in this program instead of what he is for reasons largely out of his control.
Nope....you can throw statistics out all day....
You can blame his teammates all you want.
No hustle, desire, intensity or Leadership.....Those are traits that get you beloved.
He lacks each of those.... [Reply]
Originally Posted by Al Czervik:
Nope....you can throw statistics out all day....
You can blame his teammates all your want.
No hustle, desire, intensity or Leadership.....Those are traits that get you beloved.
He lacks each of those....
I don't know how to measure any of that, but what I can tell you is that he's been the one of the most valuable players in the NCAA once again this year. If he played with NBA wings around him instead of KJ Adams, the offense would also be up there with some of the best in program history.
The blame that our only consistent performing player gets for the faults/flaws of other players on this team is way out of line with reality. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BWillie:
Does it count the times that hes so slow to rotate that easy baskets are made or an easy 3 is made? Or hes so slow he can't get down the court, at all on transition...even sequences that arent even really transition just guys moving kinda fast. All of these analytics are hugely subjective.
There is a reason every single team including the Michigan teams underperformed every year and why Dickinson is not a pro prospect. He is not bad. He is not awful. Simply and overrated player because he doesn't play winning basketball compared to the stats he produces.
I'm not so sure we would even get worse if Hunter never played again and Bidunga played 30 mpg.
It counts all of it and they're still better defensively with him on the floor. You can hurt him if you bring him out to the perimeter with bigs that also shoot threes, but there are very few bigs in the NCAA that can do that enough to make that a regular problem.
The reason he's not a pro prospect is because he's not even close to athletic enough by NBA standards. Those players would absolutely run circles around him if he somehow played a game there. Has nothing to do with his aptitude for the game or his scoring/passing ability where he's quite skilled and why he remains very valuable in the NCAA (and why he'll also end up as some kind of bench big in Europe pro ball).
And if you took Dickinson off this team, there's a very good chance that their offense would barely rank in the top 100 in offensive rating. That's how bad they are statistically when he's off the floor. Our offense would probably just consist of handing the ball to Storr or Zeke and asking them to hit contested shots. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
I don't know how to measure any of that, but what I can tell you is that he's been the one of the most valuable players in the NCAA once again this year. If he played with NBA wings around him instead of KJ Adams, the offense would also be up there with some of the best in program history.
The blame that our only consistent performing player gets for the faults/flaws of other players on this team is way out of line with reality.
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
It counts all of it and they're still better defensively with him on the floor. You can hurt him if you bring him out to the perimeter with bigs that also shoot threes, but there are very few bigs in the NCAA that can do that enough to make that a regular problem.
The reason he's not a pro prospect is because he's not even close to athletic enough by NBA standards. Those players would absolutely run circles around him if he somehow played a game there. Has nothing to do with his aptitude for the game or his scoring/passing ability where he's quite skilled and why he remains very valuable in the NCAA (and why he'll also end up as some kind of bench big in Europe pro ball).
And if you took Dickinson off this team, there's a very good chance that their offense would barely rank in the top 100 in offensive rating. That's how bad they are statistically when he's off the floor. Our offense would probably just consist of handing the ball to Storr or Zeke and asking them to hit contested shots.
Dedric Lawson also had some similarities to Dickinson. Both stat producers. Both do not equal wins. Both slow, lazy, and cumbersome.
Dedric was leader of a 26-10 Kansas team who also did not meet expectations. [Reply]
Originally Posted by sedated:
This feels like Mike Sweeney on the mid-2000's Royals - he got a ton of hate because he was the biggest name on a string of dogshit teams.
I would agree. HD is going to be one of the more polarizing KU figures of the last 20 years or so. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BWillie:
Dedric Lawson also had some similarities to Dickinson. Both stat producers. Both do not equal wins. Both slow, lazy, and cumbersome.
Dedric was leader of a 26-10 Kansas team who also did not meet expectations.
Or they both played for incredibly flawed teams for reasons that had very little to do with them. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BWillie:
Dedric Lawson also had some similarities to Dickinson. Both stat producers. Both do not equal wins. Both slow, lazy, and cumbersome.
Dedric was leader of a 26-10 Kansas team who also did not meet expectations.
Dedric and Udoka were a great duo until Udoka got predictably injured (again).
That plus Grimes and Dotson being so inconsistent really screwed that team.
Not to mention the Vick drama.
A lot to be annoyed about with the 2019 team, but Lawson is at the bottom of the list. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RockChalk:
I would agree. HD is going to be one of the more polarizing KU figures of the last 20 years or so.
I think he's more similar to Perry Ellis than anybody else in the last decade or so, although Dickinson was the better player overall. Both players were very good offensively but perceived to be poor defensively and kind of soft.
One though was sort of beloved in the program and other has become like the main representation of why this era of the team is failing. [Reply]
