Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy! [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
Come on, dude. I don't buy any of that shit for one second.
Arians loved Mahomes so much that he neglected to trade up just a handful of spots to take him? Instead he elected to enter the season with Gabbert, Stanton and Matt Barkley at QB? Same with Payton; he only needed to jump up a few spots.
It's not that black and white since drafts don't occur in a vacuum, but when there's such a large disparity.. yes, kind of.
Lawrence is probably the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck. And Luck was the best QB prospect we'd seen in probably at least 10 years prior.
Mahomes obviously panned out well, but we're talking about them solely as prospects.
Eh, either way. Lawrence will go #1 in 2021. He'd have gone either #1 or 2 in 2020. He likely could have gone #1 in 2019.
If you went back in time and took 2017 Patrick Mahomes and put him in this 2021 draft, Lawrence would still go #1.
But that's a totally different issue. Would Lawrence go #1 over Trubisky?
Originally Posted by Pants:
I buy it. They probably didn't think anyone ahead of them was going to take him. Dorsey leaked that we were looking to take an LB.
We were set to pick 27th and had Alex Smith coming off a 12-4 season. I'm pretty sure everyone was shocked we traded up at all, and especially for a QB so I feel like we were pretty much a non-factor to most teams as far as planning and maneuvering is concerned.
But just taking a quick glance at the draft, the Saints had the 12th pick and the Cards (Arians) had the 13th pick. The Bengals at 9, Bills at 10, Texans at 11, Ravens at 16, Redskins at 17, Broncos at 20, etc. could all conceivably have been in the market for a QB.
You really think a team who's "foaming at the mouth" for a QB wouldn't bother to trade up just a few spots to ensure they can nab him?
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
But that's a totally different issue. Would Lawrence go #1 over Trubisky?
Sure.
Is he a better prospect than Mahomes?
No.
Idk. Maybe you know something more than I do, but I just don't see it. I think we're all Chiefs fans and we're also tainted by the fact that we know that Mahomes has panned out quite well. We're ignoring the fact that Mahomes as a prospect had huge boom-or-bust potential. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
We were set to pick 27th and had Alex Smith coming off a 12-4 season. I'm pretty sure everyone was shocked we traded up at all, and especially for a QB so I feel like we were pretty much a non-factor to most teams as far as planning and maneuvering is concerned.
But just taking a quick glance at the draft, the Saints had the 12th pick and the Cards (Arians) had the 13th pick. The Bengals at 9, Bills at 10, Texans at 11, Ravens at 16, Redskins at 17, Broncos at 20, etc. could all conceivably have been in the market for a QB.
You really think a team who's "foaming at the mouth" for a QB wouldn't bother to trade up just a few spots to ensure they can nab him?
Idk. Maybe you know something more than I do, but I just don't see it. I think we're all Chiefs fans and we're also tainted by the fact that we know that Mahomes has panned out quite well. We're ignoring the fact that Mahomes as a prospect had huge boom-or-bust potential.
Or could it be that the talking heads were just wrong?
Sean Payton called him the next Favre and the best QB he ever scouted.
Andy Reid said he was sold on Mahomes 2 years before the 2017 draft.
Brett Veach said he was generational and the best player he ever scouted.
Maybe these guys know more than guys like Bucky Brooks, Mel Kiper, etc?
I do understand where you are coming from. Just saying the best QB evaluators aren't giving you their rankings on TV. [Reply]
If we see another Mahomes hit the NFL (no, it hasn't happened yet, Marcellus Fuckface) it's not going to happen at #1 overall. The generational talents that get talked about like Lawrence and Luck did simply check all of the boxes. That's what makes them generational. But they're checks, and not "Holy mother of God, did you goddamn see that?" exclamation marks.
It shouldn't be this way, but for some reason teams are still sheepish about taking the highest potential QB at #1, and they'd instead prefer a QB who is about as close to a guarantee as you can get of being a top 15 starter. That's what Lawrence is, for sure.
And I think that's what is still slow to change in the draft evaluation business. [Reply]
The next Mahomes hasn't even hit high school yet... Right now there are 8-12 year olds practicing no look passes, throws backing up, sideways, jumping in the air, and running right or left throwing back the other way... Patrick is changing the way the QB position is going to be played in the future... [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
I read an article yesterday with June Jones who said that Mac Jones is the best QB in this class and by a wide margin.
His reasoning? Mac Jones was the best downfield thrower (20+ yards) by a wide margin due to his accuracy. JJ stated that Lawrence and all of the other top rated QB's look at the ball when throwing downfield, whereas Mac Jones looks at his receiver, which makes him far more accurate.
He stated that many QB's he worked with in the past, including Warren Moon, would overshoot their receivers by a foot or two because they weren't focused on the receiver and once he helped them to make that adjustment, their careers skyrocketed.
It's an interesting take and I'll be curious as to the success of Mac Jones vs. the other 1st round QB's in the 2021 draft.
It’s a thing in basketball. If you watch your shot, it fucks up your release somehow. I never understood it, but I had a coach bust my nuts about it. So I worked on it and fixed it. And by god I shot better.
I didn’t believe it because the ball is gone, but it matters.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a simpler thing in football. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
If we see another Mahomes hit the NFL (no, it hasn't happened yet, Marcellus ****face) it's not going to happen at #1 overall. The generational talents that get talked about like Lawrence and Luck did simply check all of the boxes. That's what makes them generational. But they're checks, and not "Holy mother of God, did you goddamn see that?" exclamation marks.
It shouldn't be this way, but for some reason teams are still sheepish about taking the highest potential QB at #1, and they'd instead prefer a QB who is about as close to a guarantee as you can get of being a top 15 starter. That's what Lawrence is, for sure.
And I think that's what is still slow to change in the draft evaluation business.
Thinking about it over time, I think two of them that did fit the bill were Michael Vick and John Elway. Imagine if Vick had Andy Reid as his coach in Atlanta. Reid was able to make Vick a much better passer in Philly, but he was working with an older version of Vick that was damaged from injuries and mental baggage as well. The crazy thing with Elway is that we also had Marino in the same draft. Both of those dudes had insane physical talent and lived up to the hype. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DRM08:
Thinking about it over time, I think two of them that did fit the bill were Michael Vick and John Elway. Imagine if Vick had Andy Reid as his coach in Atlanta. Reid was able to make Vick a much better passer in Philly, but he was working with an older version of Vick that was damaged from injuries and mental baggage as well. The crazy thing with Elway is that we also had Marino in the same draft. Both of those dudes had insane physical talent and lived up to the hype.
I don't know what the fuck it is, maybe because his cannon was mounted on the left side, but Vick's throws just always looked the most impressive of anyone I have ever seen. What a fucking athlete. He probably could have played any sport and been in the 99th percentile amongst the professionals. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pants:
I don't know what the **** it is, maybe because his cannon was mounted on the left side, but Vick's throws just always looked the most impressive of anyone I have ever seen. What a ****ing athlete. He probably could have played any sport and been in the 99th percentile amongst the professionals.
His throws looked like the early 2000’s Madden video game bullet-rainbows that always managed to hit their targets right in the hands. Had 99 speed and agility, too. Those who compare Lamar to Vick just really aren’t remembering Vick’s arm. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pants:
I don't know what the **** it is, maybe because his cannon was mounted on the left side, but Vick's throws just always looked the most impressive of anyone I have ever seen. What a ****ing athlete. He probably could have played any sport and been in the 99th percentile amongst the professionals.
Frozen ropes. They just had a different (and very unique) trajectory. [Reply]