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Nzoner's Game Room>Seth Keysor sees what we see...
DJ's left nut 09:14 AM 11-22-2024
https://open.substack.com/pub/mnchie...utm_medium=web

I don't typically re-post his stuff because I think you want to support guys trying to freelance like he does. But I think this contributes to conversation enough to be worthwhile.

Spoiler!



It's what many of us have been saying - those folks that are killing the OT play just aren't paying that much attention. Yes, it's been bad at times. No, it's not the primary problem for a great deal many of these games.

On Sunday the issues were overwhelmingly Trey Smith and Patrick Mahomes. The pass protection issues have extended well beyond the OT play. And Patrick Mahomes is the single biggest culprit to the misfiring offense (at least he was in Buffalo and that was just a continuation of what we've seen this season, IMO)
[Reply]
Gary Cooper 09:39 AM 11-22-2024
Originally Posted by RedinTexas:
I mostly agree with you except for one thing. Mahomes has been highly effective in situations where the play is breaking down. I'm not suggesting that it's not a problem, but defenses often make big mistakes when Mahomes moves out of the pocket.
Yeah, that's what I was saying above. You take the good with the bad. He makes more good plays than bad when trying to do something special.

We probably have to wait until Mahomes is 35+ when he will stop trusting his escape ability and focus more on traditional QB mechanics.
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DJ's left nut 09:42 AM 11-22-2024
Originally Posted by RedinTexas:
I mostly agree with you except for one thing. Mahomes has been highly effective in situations where the play is breaking down. I'm not suggesting that it's not a problem, but defenses often make big mistakes when Mahomes moves out of the pocket.
Okay, but teams are now BANKING on that tendency from him. And doing a fantastic job of using it against him.

Goddamn Chargers found the "Blueprint" much more than Fangio ever did. This pressure/flow shit they found is a proooooooblem and of course other teams are now copying it against us.

And the only answer to it is for Mahomes to stand in there and fire. And of course, Smith's gonna have to suck a hell of a lot less to allow for that.

Right now opposing defense are creating chaos designed to give the appearance of a play breaking down when in reality it's mostly just bait designed to get him off his spot and play sped up. And he's taking that bait just about every time.

He's gotta stop. And if they start playing him honest again, he can get back to that. But right now they're using his instincts against him.
[Reply]
Woogieman 09:44 AM 11-22-2024
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I think he's stretched thin. These guys are human.

Between off-the field obligations (sponsorships, celebrity status, team friggen ownership) and being a parent, guy has a LOT going on.

It's probably just a little harder to stay completely locked in during the season than it used to be.

Doesn't mean he can't dial it back in for the post-season, but if he gets into the habit of feeling phantom pressure, that's gonna be harder to break.
It's a fair question to ask if he still dedicates the same prep/film room time that he has previously. Does he need to? I would think that given the O performance going on aprox. 1.5 years now, I would say "absolutely". I guess this post-season will answer a lot of questions, like: "are they bored and not showing things:, and "can a team be so good, they can just turn it uo like the NBA?".
[Reply]
RunKC 09:46 AM 11-22-2024
Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch:
When in the **** have I ever said the LT position is the only problem? There's plenty of other reasons why this offense and Mahomes aren't anywhere near where they should be.

Obviously, injuries are chief amongst them, but even taking that into account the on field personnel rotations are ****ing shitty right now. Guys like Watson and Steele shouldn't be taking nearly the amount of snaps they have been.

Mahomes deserves a pretty fair amount of criticism as well. Plenty of other QBs function just fine in this situation, and he's got enough support that he shouldn't be devolving into a complete pumpkin for large stretches at a time.

But again, these issues do largely correlate to bad OL play. Offense looked just fine against the Ravens. Get to the Bengals game, Suamataia absolutely shits himself, and Mahomes regressed to an absolutely horrible standard of play for literal weeks. Even before Rice got hurt, this offense looked ****ing horrible against the Bengals, Falcons, and Chargers, and Mahomes was out there making some of the worst throws of his career, which has unfortunately became a bit of a trend this season.
Looking back there were signs Kingsley wasn’t doing well. I think a lot of it was hidden bc they had so many quick passes to Rashee.

He was holding on for dear life

Broadcast just showed “highlights” of rookie LT Kingsley Suamataia … I saw at least 3 holds there. pic.twitter.com/VkQ86zU256

— Kyle (@ImKyleMangum) September 6, 2024

[Reply]
DJ's left nut 09:48 AM 11-22-2024
Originally Posted by Woogieman:
It's a fair question to ask if he still dedicates the same prep/film room time that he has previously. Does he need to? I would think that given the O performance going on aprox. 1.5 years now, I would say "absolutely". I guess this post-season will answer a lot of questions, like: "are they bored and not showing things:, and "can a team be so good, they can just turn it uo like the NBA?".
I don't think it's film study. I think he probably does all that as much as he ever has.

I think its reps. And not game reps, but technique reps. When pitchers are out there throwing between starts, it's not work on pitches, it's to make sure their arm slot is sound and they have the proper drive and follow through. Just keeping things honed.

I wonder if that's where some of this stuff is slipping. I just can't get over how strange his lower half looks on some of these throws. He's always been unorthodox there, but you could always find a method to his madness -- he does things other guys don't do because they CAN'T do those things and they clearly help him.

But he's doing things right now that just hurt him. And they're unforced.

And hell man, it may be none of that at all. It's all speculative as hell. It's just me thinking out loud.
[Reply]
Sassy Squatch 09:48 AM 11-22-2024
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Did you watch how many times Wilson stood in last night and took a SHOT to get the ball downfield?

I'm fucking done with "Mahomes doesn't trust the OL"

You're an NFL quarterback. You're gonna get hit. Put your big boy pants on and play the position.

Besides, as was noted in the article, his indecision is GETTING him blasted about half the time. Throw the damn ball on time and you can avoid a bunch of these shots you're taking.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Doesn't mean he can't dial it back in for the post-season, but if he gets into the habit of feeling phantom pressure, that's gonna be harder to break.
I don't even get what the argument is about here. We can all acknowledge there's a problem here.

Mahomes is a lot less effective as a passer with bad OL play, right? Like, even relative to the rest of the QBs league he's unfortunately pretty susceptible to pressure at times, and that's been a constant throughout his entire career.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 09:51 AM 11-22-2024
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Looking back there were signs Kingsley wasn’t doing well. I think a lot of it was hidden bc they had so many quick passes to Rashee.

He was holding on for dear life

Nah.

I mean he wasn't great. But "at least 3 holds" is just complete bullshit. I'd hold off on posting conclusions from Ravens fans.

Every fan in the world screams "HOLDING" when that arm gets up high but no, that's not a hold. We did it when Hali got himself in that position 5 times every game but it's not a hold. And on another one of those, as soon as his arms got outside his frame he gave a quick bar and then pulled them back.

I saw maybe one hold in there and it was a soft one. The rest was just...well what I think a lot of folks said at the time - rough, but acceptable for a first game.

The issue was that he went backwards and not forwards.
[Reply]
Wisconsin_Chief 10:00 AM 11-22-2024
A lot of people don't want to admit that the biggest problem this year has been Pat. I get it, he's untouchable, and there still is no QB on Earth I'd take over him, but yeah, he's been awful by his standards. Then again, he has been without his two starting WRs and starting RB all season. Kelce is not a #1 anymore (until the playoffs) and you've got a street free agent at RB along with an UDFA who isn't much of anything and a Broncos cast off as your 3rd down back. You have aging Hopkins trying to learn on the fly at WR, a Pats castoff in JuJu who could die at any moment, and a very raw rookie. I mean, I don't think there's a QB in the league who could look "good" with this cast. Pat is doing about as well as anyone should expect with this nonsense season.

Sigh, one of these years Pat is going to have all his WRs healthy and we're going to see the old 15 again. Come playoff time, though, I still fully expect him and Kelce to flip the God switch and do what we all know they're going to do. Until then, just keep winning anyway you possibly can.
[Reply]
Sassy Squatch 10:07 AM 11-22-2024
Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Chief:
A lot of people don't want to admit that the biggest problem this year has been Pat. I get it, he's untouchable, and there still is no QB on Earth I'd take over him, but yeah, he's been awful by his standards. Then again, he has been without his two starting WRs and starting RB all season. Kelce is not a #1 anymore (until the playoffs) and you've got a street free agent at RB along with an UDFA who isn't much of anything and a Broncos cast off as your 3rd down back. You have aging Hopkins trying to learn on the fly at WR, a Pats castoff in JuJu who could die at any moment, and a very raw rookie. I mean, I don't think there's a QB in the league who could look "good" with this cast. Pat is doing about as well as anyone should expect with this nonsense season.

Sigh, one of these years Pat is going to have all his WRs healthy and we're going to see the old 15 again. Come playoff time, though, I still fully expect him and Kelce to flip the God switch and do what we all know they're going to do. Until then, just keep winning anyway you possibly can.
Sure, but the offensive staff needs to be better at mitigating these issues as well.

I think it was after the Raiders loss last season they came out and said the Chiefs were going to strip down the playbook quite a bit to help both the struggling receivers and Mahomes, and it worked, quite well.
[Reply]
Sassy Squatch 10:10 AM 11-22-2024
Justin Watson has taken more snaps than Deandre Hopkins every game this season. That's a bit silly. If we need to narrow the playbook for a bit so our best options can play more, let's do it.
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RunKC 10:22 AM 11-22-2024
The Chiefs aren’t playing Hopkins a ton bc they want that 4th rd pick.

Originally Posted by :
"[The] Titans get a fifth-round pick that elevates to a fourth rounder if KC makes the Super Bowl and Hopkins plays 60% of the snaps,"
I know that sounds dumb but they care a lot about that kinda stuff.
[Reply]
Red Dawg 10:23 AM 11-22-2024
We haven’t lost a playoff game in 2 years. Until we do let's all stfu.
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Sassy Squatch 10:23 AM 11-22-2024
That's fucking idiotic and both Veach and Reid need a boot up the ass if that's actually why they won't play Hopkins more.
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Wisconsin_Chief 10:28 AM 11-22-2024
Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch:
That's ****ing idiotic and both Veach and Reid need a boot up the ass if that's actually why they won't play Hopkins more.
Yeah, I hate questioning these guys at this point, but if that's truly what it is they are really pushing their luck.
[Reply]
BWillie 10:30 AM 11-22-2024
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Okay, but teams are now BANKING on that tendency from him. And doing a fantastic job of using it against him.

Goddamn Chargers found the "Blueprint" much more than Fangio ever did. This pressure/flow shit they found is a proooooooblem and of course other teams are now copying it against us.

And the only answer to it is for Mahomes to stand in there and fire. And of course, Smith's gonna have to suck a hell of a lot less to allow for that.

Right now opposing defense are creating chaos designed to give the appearance of a play breaking down when in reality it's mostly just bait designed to get him off his spot and play sped up. And he's taking that bait just about every time.

He's gotta stop. And if they start playing him honest again, he can get back to that. But right now they're using his instincts against him.
Fangio lol

I remember when the Eagles hired Fangio as a consultant for the SB and we put like 35 on those frauds
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