Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy! [Reply]
Originally Posted by DRM08:
Yep, the juke moves might be a bigger threat for injury with Lamar. Deshaun Watson messed up his knee with no physical contact during practice. All it takes is one weird step to mess up an ankle or knee.
Quarterbacks get hurt but it's rarely one of those 'quarterback gets rocked' kind of things. Montana's back never recovered after that hit he took against the Giants. And a few guys get fallen on and have their shoulders messed up. Smith happened.
But most major QB injuries are kinda flukey. They're Brees getting his arm whacked as he throws or Brady having his knee hit wrong. There's just really no figuring your way around them - it's kind of a 'but for the grace of God go I...' sort of thing.
The one thing that worries the SHIT out of me, however, is concussions. Because I do think that quarterbacks can control that to some degree and sometimes that's an area where Mahomes isn't very good. He doesn't always protect himself well. That's an area where one hard shot, and not even a strange one, can break that seal. And then you just hope beyond hope that you don't see another one that season or even the next.
Because then you start to have those dark thoughts anytime your boy gets hit. Every drop back has you holding your breath. It becomes an Aikman/Young thing. We know that one concussion is often just the beginning of a string of them and then...well then it's done. The party's over. You don't have a guy who is playing at 90% of his once elite level - you have a guy who simply doesn't play any more.
No matter how 'quarterback friendly' the league gets, concussions are so personal and so unique to each individual that a guy who is otherwise fit/talented enough to play to 40 could be out of the game a decade earlier. And Mahomes has a good enough head on his shoulders that I could see that being the one thing that could convince him to walk away early.
I don't think Jackson takes the kind of blows that make him more prone to those, though. People don't acknowledge enough just how good a job he does of avoiding hard contact. [Reply]
All anyone has to do is watch the Titans/Ravens all 22. Lamar is not one of the best throwers in the league. He just isn’t. He’s Cam Newton with a better scheme.
Thinking that Lamar is in the same stratosphere in Mahomes is just ridiculousness. It’s purely playing devil’s advocate. [Reply]
Originally Posted by St. Patty's Fire:
All anyone has to do is watch the Titans/Ravens all 22. Lamar is not one of the best throwers in the league. He just isn’t. He’s Cam Newton with a better scheme.
Thinking that Lamar is in the same stratosphere in Mahomes is just ridiculousness. It’s purely playing devil’s advocate.
I think Lamar Jackson has a very good arm, and throws the ball well. His accuracy can be erratic though. I think he struggles with the play book, and because he isn't confident in where everyone on the field is at any one point in a given play he is too quick to run.
He checks his first read, and if it's covered, unless someone flashes right in his eye line, he is ready to pull it down and run.
The man led the NFL in TD passes and QBR last year. A running back, which is what everyone wants to call him, doesn't lead the league in TD passes or QBR.
I know that Mahomes is on a different level than everyone else, and it makes me ecstatic hearing television and radio blowhards spewing praise all over him, and my favorite NFL team, but because we now have Mahomes, I don't need to tear down other players to make myself feel better.
Lamar Jackson is a stud, and he deserves respect for what he has accomplished in only two years in the NFL. Mahomes will undoubtedly get better, but so will Jackson, and that's ok.
The one thing that worries the SHIT out of me, however, is concussions. Because I do think that quarterbacks can control that to some degree and sometimes that's an area where Mahomes isn't very good. He doesn't always protect himself well. That's an area where one hard shot, and not even a strange one, can break that seal. And then you just hope beyond hope that you don't see another one that season or even the next.
Funny you say that. He's a lot better at protecting himself now than he was in college. He would lower his shoulder into people all the time and took way too many big hits in college. These days he at least will get out of bounds most of the time when he runs. He's at least showing some signs of growth compared to 4-5 years ago. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC Hawks:
Would y'all take Kyler Murray over Jackson?
Very probably, yes. But I have a hard time making that statement just yet.
Murray still has some 'new hotness' to him that convinces people to overlook some spotty decisionmaking and mediocre touch at times. And he IS the kind of mobile quarterback that'll get hit more often. Jackson's just so weirdly elusive. Murray, OTOH, is just damn fast. Athletic in his own right, but doesn't seem to have that preternatural field vision/body control. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DRM08:
Funny you say that. He's a lot better at protecting himself now than he was in college. He would lower his shoulder into people all the time and took way too many big hits in college. These days he at least will get out of bounds most of the time when he runs. He's at least showing some signs of growth compared to 4-5 years ago.
No question he's improved in that regard.
And it's hard to say "well he took a couple of hard shots in the SB..." because duh - it's the Super Bowl. That's what you save yourself for.
But you're right, he's gotten better there. I just don't think the average fan understands how much more composed and in control he was last season than '18 because the numbers weren't as gaudy. He was taking hits in '18 that he didn't take in '19 because he knew how to use little movements to buy space and time. He also knew where to go with the ball that much sooner.
But he's always going to be a hard-wired competitor. You take away all that athletic ability and he'd have ended up being the guy who's still diving for balls and sliding in slow-pitch softball at 40 years old and eventually blows up his ankle. You can know all day that what you're doing is stupid and reckless...but you're still gonna do it because it was late innings and you really wanted to break up that double-play.
Mahomes can be smarter and safer, but he'll never be able to turn off that fire and it will get him whacked at times. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chiefspants:
For better or worse, I think Lamar's arm is actually very comparable to Alex Smith's (post shoulder surgery).
I'd put it just a small tick behind Smith's.
Not much - it's probably a fair comparison - but a little.
I'll be interested to see what Brown does this year. In Hill's first year as a starter, Smith was able to get him 16 yards/catch for 1200 yards and a pro bowl nod. He had the arm to let Hill do Hill things. Obviously Hill was made better by Mahomes, but he wasn't grounded by any stretch of the imagination w/ Smith. Alex Smith had the pure arm talent to make Tyreek Hill the most dangerous deep threat in the league in his first year as a starter.
I don't think Jackson can do that. I don't think he has the juice to turn Hollywood Brown into a superstar. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DRM08:
Yep, the juke moves might be a bigger threat for injury with Lamar. Deshaun Watson messed up his knee with no physical contact during practice. All it takes is one weird step to mess up an ankle or knee.
We see guys blow out a knee without contact. Thornhill is just the latest. Both Watson and Jackson run into piles of bodies all the time. We saw what a pile of bodies can do to our QB last year. A play no QB had ever been injured on. They are increased risks over Mahomes.
Mahomes took some risks in the playoffs and SB with getting a safety and or a LB hitting him full on. But, in a week 6 game he seems to know just get down or out of bounds. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC Hawks:
Would y'all take Kyler Murray over Jackson?
100%. Murray actually impresses on the all 22 as a thrower IMO. I mean, his offensive line was fucking TERRIBLE, there were some absolutely insane throws he made this season. He’s twice the thrower of the football that Lamar is. [Reply]