Look at what they’re doing to the best player in the game.
His own teammates are consistently sabotaging him on a weekly basis.
And now he’s finally emotionally coming unglued.
Just a complete embarrassment all the way around.
Total malpractice and an absolute waste of your biggest investment.
If Veach and Reid had any balls they would cut Toney tonight as he has now single handedly cost us not one but TWO games. I wouldn’t blame Pat if he went scorched earth in his presser. Someone has to hold these clowns accountable and if the FO and coaching staff won’t then maybe he should.
Either way this is unacceptable and shameful. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
see, the thing is about you-
If you refuse to argue in good faith, it makes your argument bullshit.
'if the plan was to draft and develop you can't draft 1 guy a year
They spent two #2 picks and a #3 pick in a 12 month span.
That's a considerable investment.
They let Juju walk because he has one functional knee, as we've seen in New England, as he can't even get on the field. Juju is washed, he's done.
It was entirely reasonable to project that this group would be better in year two of the offense than year one. In fact, building a contender DEPENDS on that happening year in and year out. We've literally seen it with every other position group Veach has built.
It's also a fact that this did not pan out, and failed in spectacular fashion.
so where on one hand-you could say that you were right; you also discount just how miserably the returning WR corps has been.
They're not JAGS. JAGS would be a vast, vast improvement, and we'd probably be like 12-3 right now and on cruise control for the #1 seed.
JAGS was what I assumed was the floor going into the season. JAGS would have been fine, JAGS was what we had last year. If you think Juju was anything at all special in 2022, you're smoking crack.
The entire group except for Rice regressed to entirely unplayable, not even NFL level play.
That's ****in' weird.
But there was absolutely a substantial investment made.
Yup. MVS and Watson were JAG level passable players last year. Hardman was fine, Toney showed a lot of potential.
Now they all regressed badly. Like "shouldn't be on a roster" terrible.
The only player who never showed anything resembling a JAG level player was Skyy Moore [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I'm fairly confident that was not the plan. Toney, by most accounts, was supposed to be the true replacement and the "go-to #1" guy. Didn't happen.
Skyy was supposed to be the Hardman replacement. Didn't happen.
James was supposed to bolster the corps and be a special teams ace. Didn't happen.
Rice was supposed to grow and learn and build the overall corps and he ended up the de facto JuJu replacement only because he's seemingly the only WR that can do shit and stay healthy.
If Toney and Skyy didn't suck and actually grew, we'd have a pretty stellar set of WRs for the next couple of years. Instead we're scratching our asses wondering how the **** he's going to fix this disaster and if they can limp us at all to a playoff game.
I understand all of that and you have accurately described the thought process.
I just don’t get how you assume Toney is healthy or assume Skyy is good when he showed nothing the year before.
Even if they wanted to try that risky plan they should have moved some $$$ into fund ready to buy a vet at trade deadline.
Originally Posted by RunKC:
They got cocky and thought last year would work again with JAG WR's and draft picks. It obviously didn't.
They also got cocky with how they were able to quickly rebuild the Oline after the 2020 season & thought they could do it again. The truth is that's usually a 3 yr project & they got extremely lucky they were able to turn it around so quickly in '21.
I would blame Tom Brady for the current state of the receiving corps. Seriously. They watched Brady go on a 15 yr run and win superbowls nearly every year with nothing but slapdicks like Chris Hogan at receiver and thought they could do the same. But that only worked because Brady would ride guys ass all offseason, preseason, and during the early season and whittle a preseason roster of 4 or 5 potential threats down into 1 or 2 that he trusted. Then those guys would play every snap. It doesn't at all work with Reid's philosophy of being a team guy & playing every receiver on the roster equally. [Reply]
Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl:
They also got cocky with how they were able to quickly rebuild the Oline after the 2020 season & thought they could do it again. The truth is that's usually a 3 yr project & they got extremely lucky they were able to turn it around so quickly in '21.
I would blame Tom Brady for the current state of the receiving corps. Seriously. They watched Brady go on a 15 yr run and win superbowls nearly every year with nothing but slapdicks like Chris Hogan at receiver and thought they could do the same. But that only worked because Brady would ride guys ass all offseason, preseason, and during the early season and whittle a preseason roster of 4 or 5 potential threats down into 1 or 2 that he trusted. Then those guys would play every snap. It doesn't at all work with Reid's philosophy of being a team guy & playing every receiver on the roster equally.
If they were watching Brady, they should've made note of Brady's improved performance when he had good or great receivers.
Moss, Gronk, Welker, Edelman, Troy Brown...
He didn't always have elite receivers, but he always had far more to work with than the garbage the Chiefs are rolling out every week this season. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I'm fairly confident that was not the plan. Toney, by most accounts, was supposed to be the true replacement and the "go-to #1" guy. Didn't happen.
Skyy was supposed to be the Hardman replacement. Didn't happen.
James was supposed to bolster the corps and be a special teams ace. Didn't happen.
Rice was supposed to grow and learn and build the overall corps and he ended up the de facto JuJu replacement only because he's seemingly the only WR that can do shit and stay healthy.
If Toney and Skyy didn't suck and actually grew, we'd have a pretty stellar set of WRs for the next couple of years. Instead we're scratching our asses wondering how the **** he's going to fix this disaster and if they can limp us at all to a playoff game.
Everything that COULD go wrong, DID go wrong, except for Rice.
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Everything that COULD go wrong, DID go wrong, except for Rice.
It sucks.
If it is true we tried to trade up for Zay Flowers in the 1st and Rashee Rice was our guy in the 2nd the silver lining here is that our taste in WR's might be much better than before.
Is it because Mahomes is our new WR scout when he throws footballs to college prospects in the offseason?
Because both of these guys caught footballs from Patrick.
I don't know but if that's what it takes get every legit WR prospect into some kind of random throwing session next year. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I'm fairly confident that was not the plan. Toney, by most accounts, was supposed to be the true replacement and the "go-to #1" guy. Didn't happen.
Skyy was supposed to be the Hardman replacement. Didn't happen.
James was supposed to bolster the corps and be a special teams ace. Didn't happen.
Rice was supposed to grow and learn and build the overall corps and he ended up the de facto JuJu replacement only because he's seemingly the only WR that can do shit and stay healthy.
If Toney and Skyy didn't suck and actually grew, we'd have a pretty stellar set of WRs for the next couple of years. Instead we're scratching our asses wondering how the **** he's going to fix this disaster and if they can limp us at all to a playoff game.
that’s what’s most disturbing. This isn’t some rookie or free agent who didn’t pan out. We know Reid doesn’t like to play rookies so we went all in on Toney/skyy being the top 2 guys in this pass offense with Mvs being the occasional deep threat. These are guys they saw in practice every single day.
Just really bad self scouting. It’s surprising even to me that the bottom has fallen out of this group. I thought we had an abundance of role guys. But the problems at the top of the depth chart were very predictable. I mean the top WR target was a guy all of us would predictably be hurt all the time [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Everything that COULD go wrong, DID go wrong, except for Rice.
It sucks.
The top of the depth chart regressed badly. Indicative of some extremely poor coaching. MVS, Toney, and Moore all are going to have their worst seasons as a pro. It's quite astonishing. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch:
The top of the depth chart regressed badly. Indicative of some extremely poor coaching. MVS, Toney, and Moore all are going to have their worst seasons as a pro. It's quite astonishing.
Moore didn’t regress… he was all promise. Toney has always just flashes. Mvs has always been wildly inconsistent. These guys had a boom year in a system that was right place right time for them last year, and now they’ve all regressed a little more below the mean than expected. But that mean wasn’t that high to begin with. It’s made worse because we took a whole bunch of irregular producers and elevated them to roles where we need constant production. With defenses better able to stop our specific offense it was a recipe for disaster. We’ve been fitting round pegs into square holes all year, and none of those pegs were particularly special in the first place [Reply]
Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl:
They also got cocky with how they were able to quickly rebuild the Oline after the 2020 season & thought they could do it again. The truth is that's usually a 3 yr project & they got extremely lucky they were able to turn it around so quickly in '21.
I would blame Tom Brady for the current state of the receiving corps. Seriously. They watched Brady go on a 15 yr run and win superbowls nearly every year with nothing but slapdicks like Chris Hogan at receiver and thought they could do the same. But that only worked because Brady would ride guys ass all offseason, preseason, and during the early season and whittle a preseason roster of 4 or 5 potential threats down into 1 or 2 that he trusted. Then those guys would play every snap. It doesn't at all work with Reid's philosophy of being a team guy & playing every receiver on the roster equally.
I get your point, but Brady once actually went 10 years between Super Bowl wins during his career. [Reply]
