Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy! [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Ok. That's true, I get it. But that ultimately means the calculus you use to make decisions changes on a whim. If you're that quick and easy to change the approach, well, I think that leads to bigger problems.
Isn't one of the common complaints about Andy that he doesn't adapt quickly enough in-games?
And frankly - the calculus O'Brien used didn't even necessarily change. The variables did. He simply had a completely different X he was having to solve for at that stage of the game.
Same math, new numbers.
Yes, there are times you have to adjust immediately, especially when you're short stacked to begin with (as O'Brien undeniably was; the Chiefs are the more talented team). He couldn't simply sit there and hope for the storm to blow over as Reid could because he didn't have the talent advantage Reid did.
He had to act quickly and decisively at all points to give his team any chance at all. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I just don't see how this is that complicated.
Things. Change.
The FG was with the Chiefs stepping on their dicks and Arrowhead getting real, real quiet. It put them up 3 scores and 3 2 pts (and effectively a 4th because nobody is going to be chasing points and going for 2 that early in the game).
I would have gone for it, but there's a reason why you don't.
Meanwhile, Arrowhead got all the spark they needed and the Chiefs sideline was roaring once they got that first TD immediately following the FG. The situation at 11:00 in the 2nd was far different than the situation at 8:00 in the second. BoB knew damn good and well that party time was over and now momentum was building. The Chiefs appeared to still be on their feet after a couple of hay-makers. He also knew that his secondary was garbage and he had no pass rush to speak of. At that point the possibility of holding back the tidal wave was looking pretty remote unless he could rip momentum back.
The fake punt would've provided an outstanding opportunity to do it.
But it wasn't. If the Texans had been stopping the Chiefs offense themselves, not the Chiefs doing it themselves you'd have more of a point. So he ultimately thought 3 TD's and 3 two point plays was a big enough lead, but once the Chiefs scored a single TD, he thought he needed to get to 50?
Nah. Either be aggressive or don't. There's the mental aspect of your team seeing how you're playing this all out that you can't really measure. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
But it wasn't. If the Texans had been stopping the Chiefs offense themselves, not the Chiefs doing it themselves you'd have more of a point. So he ultimately thought 3 TD's and 3 two point plays was a big enough lead, but once the Chiefs scored a single TD, he thought he needed to get to 50?
Nah. Either be aggressive or don't. There's the mental aspect of your team seeing how you're playing this all out that you can't really measure.
But that's the thing - in real time, I'm not positive he did. I think he got locked into typical 'coach think' and took the points.
Then with the 10 minutes of real time that happened between the decision to kick the FG and the decision to fake the punt, he realized "uh oh - probably fucked that 4th down call up..."
You can't see what's happening in front of you, KNOW that you have to be aggressive and then say "yeah, but I wasn't 10 minutes ago so we're in for a penny, in for a pound..."
The 4th down call was almost certainly a mistake - the fake punt wasn't and that's regardless of the call he made on 4th. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Isn't one of the common complaints about Andy that he doesn't adapt quickly enough in-games?
And frankly - the calculus O'Brien used didn't even necessarily change. The variables did. He simply had a completely different X he was having to solve for at that stage of the game.
Same math, new numbers.
Yes, there are times you have to adjust immediately, especially when you're short stacked to begin with (as O'Brien undeniably was; the Chiefs are the more talented team). He couldn't simply sit there and hope for the storm to blow over as Reid could because he didn't have the talent advantage Reid did.
He had to act quickly and decisively at all points to give his team any chance at all.
Yeah, but again, it was that way when it was 21-0. Did BoB think the Chiefs were going to just continue to sodomize themselves then realize with a kick return and a TD that things had changed?
I don't think you want to go changing that quick. I just won't be convinced that he thought 24-0 was this insurmountable lead that changed with a single score from Kc. Did he think they were gonna shut them out from the jump> [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Yeah, but again, it was that way when it was 21-0. Did BoB think the Chiefs were going to just continue to sodomize themselves then realize with a kick return and a TD that things had changed?
I don't think you want to go changing that quick. I just won't be convinced that he thought 24-0 was this insurmountable lead that changed with a single score from Kc. Did he think they were gonna shut them out from the jump>
Be honest - did you?
I was in the stadium and that place had puckered up in a BIG way. "Because Chiefs" was looking more and more inevitable.
Seriously - how many teams get off the mat there? How many fans? At 21-0 it's absolutely a reasonable expectation that this whole thing is about to go up in smoke in Arrowhead. Things were DOUR for the Mudville 9 at the moment. Yes, there was a faint whisp of 'hey, we have Mahomes' in the air, but to say that the idea of a wall-to-wall ass whupin wasn't at the forefront of your thinking at that moment in time would be dishonest, IMO.
But man, EVERYTHING changed on that scoring drive. And it wasn't even the return that convinced me of it. It was Kelce's catch/run. He gets up when we're down 24-0 and still only at the 20ish yard line and he's fist pumping and fired up. The crowd is suddenly as alive as it was on the opening kick.
Brotha - that shit doesn't happen. Look at the Ravens game when they were down 13 in the 2nd half. They looked finished. The stadium sounded finished.
Conventional wisdom says that at 24-0 that team is done because in the annals of the NFL that team is ALWAYS done. Then a relatively innocuous catch and run by a TE who had been bumbling around the field to that point has him acting like he just scored a TD in overtime and the crowd is responding in kind.
And suddenly BoB is looking around and realized that this is not a normal day.
You cannot judge O'Brien for not recognizing that this thing that ALWAYS happens wasn't going to happen on this day. He's not omniscient. And again, even if you DO hold that against him (again, I think he should have gone for it), it has absolutely nothing to do with his decision on the fake punt.
He had to do something and he knew it. He suddenly realized that this wasn't going to go the way 99% of games that start like this goes.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Be honest - did you?
I was in the stadium and that place had puckered up in a BIG way. "Because Chiefs" was looking more and more inevitable.
Seriously - how many teams get off the mat there? How many fans? At 21-0 it's absolutely a reasonable expectation that this whole thing is about to go up in smoke in Arrowhead. Things were DOUR for the Mudville 9 at the moment. Yes, there was a faint whisp of 'hey, we have Mahomes' in the air, but to say that the idea of a wall-to-wall ass whupin wasn't at the forefront of your thinking at that moment in time would be dishonest, IMO.
But man, EVERYTHING changed on that scoring drive. And it wasn't even the return that convinced me of it. It was Kelce's catch/run. He gets up when we're down 24-0 and still only at the 20ish yard line and he's fist pumping and fired up. The crowd is suddenly as alive as it was on the opening kick.
Brotha - that shit doesn't happen. Look at the Ravens game when they were down 13 in the 2nd half. They looked finished. The stadium sounded finished.
Conventional wisdom says that at 24-0 that team is done because in the annals of the NFL that team is ALWAYS done. Then a relatively innocuous catch and run by a TE who had been bumbling around the field to that point has him acting like he just scored a TD in overtime and the crowd is responding in kind.
And suddenly BoB is looking around and realized that this is not a normal day.
You cannot judge O'Brien for not recognizing that this thing that ALWAYS happens wasn't going to happen on this day. He's not omniscient. And again, even if you DO hold that against him (again, I think he should have gone for it), it has absolutely nothing to do with his decision on the fake punt.
He had to do something and he knew it. He suddenly realized that this wasn't going to go the way 99% of games that start like this goes.
The fake punt was a good call.
Well.....I don't really know what I thought. I was a day post vasectomy so I was taking some heavy Miller lite therapy.
Yeah, the "because Chiefs" was there for sure. [Reply]
I was there and thought we were likely done. I did however think two things (1) we were down with TONS of time and (2) if we could knock it down to a two score difference at half, we would still have a chance. Then of course the bomb went off. :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by Beef Supreme:
That's just insane. Six defenders right there.
And lets us not forget the awareness this man has...dragging his right foot to make sure he stayed behind the LOS??? Jesus!!!! this play is my favorite Mahomes highlight so far. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kgrund:
I was there and thought we were likely done. I did however think two things (1) we were down with TONS of time and (2) if we could knock it down to a two score difference at half, we would still have a chance. Then of course the bomb went off. :-)
Me too!! I thought if we could get it to 24-14 and we get the ball first in the second half ... We might have a chance in the fourth quarter to tie or take the lead.. Boy was I wrong!! Lol.. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mecca:
Already seen this several times....basically other teams fan bases and reporters think his girlfriend is super fucking annoying.
Well she kinda is.
But the hell if I care. She and Jackson can make as many of those odd little social media clips as they want; no worries here. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties:
oh man can you wait for the amadeus parody
I predict Lamar Jackson will end up suffering from F. Murray Abraham syndrome!
One MVP, and then after a mediocre appearance in Star Trek: Insurrection shortly following that MVP year, he will be desperate just to have a backup role for terrible teams until he washes out/retires! [Reply]
