Look at what they’re doing to the best player in the game.
His own teammates are consistently sabotaging him on a weekly basis.
And now he’s finally emotionally coming unglued.
Just a complete embarrassment all the way around.
Total malpractice and an absolute waste of your biggest investment.
If Veach and Reid had any balls they would cut Toney tonight as he has now single handedly cost us not one but TWO games. I wouldn’t blame Pat if he went scorched earth in his presser. Someone has to hold these clowns accountable and if the FO and coaching staff won’t then maybe he should.
Either way this is unacceptable and shameful. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
If you trade Tyreek Hill then it’s on you to figure it out.
And if the plan was draft and develop you can’t draft 1 guy a year after you trade him.
If it’s sign toolbox WRs at value then you need to sign guys and do that.
Honestly, have no idea what the plan was because they didn’t seriously draft or sign guys.
What do you mean they weren't serious? They signed JuJu, Watson, and MVS and spent a 2nd rounder in 2022 plus traded for a former 1st rounder in Toney with a 2023 3rd and 6th. They signed James and spent another 2nd rounder in 2023 then traded away a 6th plus lost a 5th round comp to get Hardman back. I mean, that seems like trying to do something to me. Whiffing doesn't equal not trying. I get it, they didn't sign the guys you wanted and the guys they did get didn't perform but lets not blow smoke out our asses and say Veach wasn't serious. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
What do you mean they weren't serious? They signed JuJu, Watson, and MVS and spent a 2nd rounder in 2022 plus traded for a former 1st rounder in Toney with a 2023 3rd and 6th. They signed James and spent another 2nd rounder in 2023 then traded away a 6th plus lost a 5th round comp to get Hardman back. I mean, that seems like trying to do something to me. Whiffing doesn't equal not trying. I get it, they didn't sign the guys you wanted and the guys they did get didn't perform but lets not blow smoke out our asses and say Veach wasn't serious.
I would say they didn't have a real plan.
Last year it was toolbox the $$$ to a speed guy in MVS and sign a possession slot guy in Juju to pair with Kelce. So both were kind of bandaids to get by as JuJu was a 1 year deal.
If the plan was to draft and develop you can't draft 1 guy a year.
If the plan was to tool box then they forgot about it this offseason as they just let JuJu walk with no replacement.
James was a 1 million dollar buy low value play. Which was fine but the lack of urgency in signing any FA WR's including DHop who was incredibly affordable for his skillset.
Originally Posted by kccrow:
What do you mean they weren't serious? They signed JuJu, Watson, and MVS and spent a 2nd rounder in 2022 plus traded for a former 1st rounder in Toney with a 2023 3rd and 6th. They signed James and spent another 2nd rounder in 2023 then traded away a 6th plus lost a 5th round comp to get Hardman back. I mean, that seems like trying to do something to me. Whiffing doesn't equal not trying. I get it, they didn't sign the guys you wanted and the guys they did get didn't perform but lets not blow smoke out our asses and say Veach wasn't serious.
He's saying because it didnt pan out perfectly he wasn't serious enough. It's time to be mad not logical! [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
What do you mean they weren't serious? They signed JuJu, Watson, and MVS and spent a 2nd rounder in 2022 plus traded for a former 1st rounder in Toney with a 2023 3rd and 6th. They signed James and spent another 2nd rounder in 2023 then traded away a 6th plus lost a 5th round comp to get Hardman back. I mean, that seems like trying to do something to me. Whiffing doesn't equal not trying. I get it, they didn't sign the guys you wanted and the guys they did get didn't perform but lets not blow smoke out our asses and say Veach wasn't serious.
They got cocky and thought last year would work again with JAG WR's and draft picks. It obviously didn't. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Dunerdr:
He's saying because it didnt pan out perfectly he wasn't serious enough. It's time to be mad not logical!
No, I'm criticizing the lack of attention in the draft to adding WR's after trading Tyreek.
1 guy a year is not enough, especially when we had no #1, #2, or #3 guys that were cost-controlled already here.
I am also criticizing letting your #1 WR walk from your SB Champion team and taking the $$$$ to buy defensive depth when you don't have a #1 or #2 WR. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
There are veterans that bring something to the table, and then there's vets that don't.
MVS is a limited role player that might be washed. JWat is a glorified ST player. Neither, despite 6 years in the NFL actually bring any veteran presence or experience, because they're not accomplished in any way. They can barely run paper routes, and their reception rate is a dismal 50%. Who could possibly look up to or learn anything from those two?
James is in his first season with KC, so brings no experience in this offense, and came from a fairly dysfunctional organization, so again no real veteran experience other than collecting a check every week.
Toney . . . well, if you think Toney somehow brings any positive veteran experience, go ahead. That's not what I'm seeing from him.
And Veach isn't going to add a top-tier vet WR, because as you say, we need to go LT hunting yet again and we need to shore up the DL. It'll be another JAG type guy for bargain $$$. I only hope whoever it turns out to be, will be better than JuJu.
So, Mahomes has stated before what an asset Watson is because he knows every wide receiver position, and that they are supposed to do on every play, and often helps the younger receivers with this knowledge.
So, maybe Watson doesn't produce a lot according to the stat sheet, but Mahomes sees the value of a veteran receiver.
Also, a guy like Adam Theilen or however you spell his name, would have been tremendous compared to the other receivers we have. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
No, I'm criticizing the lack of attention in the draft to adding WR's after trading Tyreek.
1 guy a year is not enough, especially when we had no #1, #2, or #3 guys that were cost-controlled already here.
I am also criticizing letting your #1 WR walk from your SB Champion team and taking the $$$$ to buy defensive depth when you don't have a #1 or #2 WR.
They had Kelce as a number 1. They needed to replace JuJu from last year on a bum knee. They added Rice, had Skyy coming in to year two and signed James. That was the plan. 98% of this board was on board until the they ran the carfax about week 5. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
I would say they didn't have a real plan.
Last year it was toolbox the $$$ to a speed guy in MVS and sign a possession slot guy in Juju to pair with Kelce. So both were kind of bandaids to get by as JuJu was a 1 year deal.
If the plan was to draft and develop you can't draft 1 guy a year.
If the plan was to tool box then they forgot about it this offseason as they just let JuJu walk with no replacement.
James was a 1 million dollar buy low value play. Which was fine but the lack of urgency in signing any FA WR's including DHop who was incredibly affordable for his skillset.
They thought it was not that important.
see, the thing is about you-
If you refuse to argue in good faith, it makes your argument bullshit.
'if the plan was to draft and develop you can't draft 1 guy a year
They spent two #2 picks and a #3 pick in a 12 month span.
That's a considerable investment.
They let Juju walk because he has one functional knee, as we've seen in New England, as he can't even get on the field. Juju is washed, he's done.
It was entirely reasonable to project that this group would be better in year two of the offense than year one. In fact, building a contender DEPENDS on that happening year in and year out. We've literally seen it with every other position group Veach has built.
It's also a fact that this did not pan out, and failed in spectacular fashion.
so where on one hand-you could say that you were right; you also discount just how miserably the returning WR corps has been.
They're not JAGS. JAGS would be a vast, vast improvement, and we'd probably be like 12-3 right now and on cruise control for the #1 seed.
JAGS was what I assumed was the floor going into the season. JAGS would have been fine, JAGS was what we had last year. If you think Juju was anything at all special in 2022, you're smoking crack.
The entire group except for Rice regressed to entirely unplayable, not even NFL level play.
That's fuckin' weird.
But there was absolutely a substantial investment made. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Dunerdr:
They had Kelce as a number 1. They needed to replace JuJu from last year on a bum knee. They added Rice, had Skyy coming in to year two and signed James. That was the plan. 98% of this board was on board until the they ran the carfax about week 5.
Many here saw that plan as flawed which is why there was huge support to sign Hopkins.
JuJu as a veteran WR vs Rice as a rookie WR is not a direct replacement. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Dunerdr: They had Kelce as a number 1. They needed to replace JuJu from last year on a bum knee. They added Rice, had Skyy coming in to year two and signed James. That was the plan. 98% of this board was on board until the they ran the carfax about week 5.
That's the problem.
You can't just assume an older Tight End will function as your #1WR because you like saving $$$ when he is aging out.
Veach himself never wants guys over 30 and Kelce well past that. They put bandaids on it the year before and then the next year they don't even do that!
James not a probable solution at 1 million. It's a value signing you hope adds depth but you already have a bunch of guys that look like bottom of the roster players in Watson, Skyy, etc.
Where is the guy coming at 10 million?
They CUT the money on one of the weakest WR rooms in the league and then added 1 2nd round pick and the guy they picked 2nd round year before had done jack squat and never demonstrated any + NFL traits.
There was no JuJu replacement. They just hoped it would work out. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic:
So, Mahomes has stated before what an asset Watson is because he knows every wide receiver position, and that they are supposed to do on every play, and often helps the younger receivers with this knowledge.
So, maybe Watson doesn't produce a lot according to the stat sheet, but Mahomes sees the value of a veteran receiver.
Also, a guy like Adam Theilen or however you spell his name, would have been tremendous compared to the other receivers we have.
Yeah, Pat seems to like him a lot. However, he’s not a reliable possession receiver. Not with his catch%, and the fact that he isn’t a great route runner, doesn’t make proper sight adjustments, and shies from contact. But whatever at this point. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
see, the thing is about you-
If you refuse to argue in good faith, it makes your argument bullshit.
'if the plan was to draft and develop you can't draft 1 guy a year
They spent two #2 picks and a #3 pick in a 12 month span.
That's a considerable investment.
They let Juju walk because he has one functional knee, as we've seen in New England, as he can't even get on the field. Juju is washed, he's done.
It was entirely reasonable to project that this group would be better in year two of the offense than year one. In fact, building a contender DEPENDS on that happening year in and year out. We've literally seen it with every other position group Veach has built.
It's also a fact that this did not pan out, and failed in spectacular fashion.
so where on one hand-you could say that you were right; you also discount just how miserably the returning WR corps has been.
They're not JAGS. JAGS would be a vast, vast improvement, and we'd probably be like 12-3 right now and on cruise control for the #1 seed.
JAGS was what I assumed was the floor going into the season. JAGS would have been fine, JAGS was what we had last year. If you think Juju was anything at all special in 2022, you're smoking crack.
The entire group except for Rice regressed to entirely unplayable, not even NFL level play.
That's ****in' weird.
But there was absolutely a substantial investment made.
Yes, a Nelson Agholor is a JAG. A Zach Pascale is a JAG. A Mooney is a sexier JAG as many teams have them.
We did not even have those guys.
That was what I was trying to tell you for months and you wouldn't listen. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88:
Many here saw that plan as flawed which is why there was huge support to sign Hopkins.
JuJu as a veteran WR vs Rice as a rookie WR is not a direct replacement.
I'm fairly confident that was not the plan. Toney, by most accounts, was supposed to be the true replacement and the "go-to #1" guy. Didn't happen.
Skyy was supposed to be the Hardman replacement. Didn't happen.
James was supposed to bolster the corps and be a special teams ace. Didn't happen.
Rice was supposed to grow and learn and build the overall corps and he ended up the de facto JuJu replacement only because he's seemingly the only WR that can do shit and stay healthy.
If Toney and Skyy didn't suck and actually grew, we'd have a pretty stellar set of WRs for the next couple of years. Instead we're scratching our asses wondering how the fuck he's going to fix this disaster and if they can limp us at all to a playoff game. [Reply]