Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy! [Reply]
I actually don't think Mangini is actively 'hating' on Mahomes (if that's the correct way to use that phrase). He's always been a "let's pump the brakes on that," type of person, so far as I can tell. He never seems to be really enthusiastic about anything/anyone until he's got a lot of history/evidence to back it up.
And to be honest, I'm a little like that as well. It's why it took me so long to buy into the "Mahomes is really special," thing. And we all remember how Kaepernick exploded onto the football scene, and them just as quickly flamed out. As well as countless other highly touted college prospects.
Mahomes has only played 20 games after all. He hasn't even played a single bad game yet. A few bad halves has been it. It's not unreasonable really to withhold all the accolades for another couple seasons before jumping into the deep end of "Mahomes is the greatest QB of all time." [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
I actually don't think Mangini is actively 'hating' on Mahomes (if that's the correct way to use that phrase). He's always been a "let's pump the brakes on that," type of person, so far as I can tell. He never seems to be really enthusiastic about anything/anyone until he's got a lot of history/evidence to back it up.
And to be honest, I'm a little like that as well. It's why it took me so long to buy into the "Mahomes is really special," thing. And we all remember how Kaepernick exploded onto the football scene, and them just as quickly flamed out. As well as countless other highly touted college prospects.
Mahomes has only played 20 games after all. He hasn't even played a single bad game yet. A few bad halves has been it. It's not unreasonable really to withhold all the accolades for another couple seasons before jumping into the deep end of "Mahomes is the greatest QB of all time."
Greatest of all time is determined when a player's body of work is complete.
Best QB in football is not. That's about who's playing the position, right now, at the single highest level.
That's Patrick Mahomes. Muddying the waters with the rest is meaningless. Jordan was still the GOAT at 39, but he wasn't the best player in the NBA. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
I actually don't think Mangini is actively 'hating' on Mahomes (if that's the correct way to use that phrase). He's always been a "let's pump the brakes on that," type of person, so far as I can tell. He never seems to be really enthusiastic about anything/anyone until he's got a lot of history/evidence to back it up.
And to be honest, I'm a little like that as well. It's why it took me so long to buy into the "Mahomes is really special," thing. And we all remember how Kaepernick exploded onto the football scene, and them just as quickly flamed out. As well as countless other highly touted college prospects.
Mahomes has only played 20 games after all. He hasn't even played a single bad game yet. A few bad halves has been it. It's not unreasonable really to withhold all the accolades for another couple seasons before jumping into the deep end of "Mahomes is the greatest QB of all time."
Seriously? Did you listen to his criticism of Mahomes?
The breaks aren't being pumped. This guy is relying upon blind cherrypicking bias. It's really reprehensible and entirely disingenuous. Fuck him several times over. I'm fine with a genuine critique, but none of that's happening here. [Reply]
Originally Posted by WhiteWhale:
Greatest of all time is determined when a player's body of work is complete.
Best QB in football is not. That's about who's playing the position, right now, at the single highest level.
That's Patrick Mahomes. Muddying the waters with the rest is meaningless. Jordan was still the GOAT at 39, but he wasn't the best player in the NBA.
Oh, I agree with you. But I think the heaps of kudos and praise has already muddied the waters a little when people, including some analysts, talk about Mahomes. Yesterday or this morning, Some ESPN or Fox Sports talking head said that Mahomes is the best player of all time. Or something like that. The other panelists jumped all over that.
I believe that Pat Mahomes is the best QB I've ever seen, and probably will be, if he plays for long enough at something close to the level he's been playing, the best QB the NFL has ever seen.
But the greatest and the best are different. The greatest is about accomplishments, which means rings.
The best, IMO, is about ability, talent, etc. In terms of the ability to throw the ball on time, precisely, consistently, regardless of place, the moment, distance, platform, weather, you name it, Patrick Mahomes is the best QB that's ever played in the NFL, in my opinion. But there's more to being a great QB than just being able to throw the ball well. Even incredibly well.
But other than throw a bunch of TDs for a staggering number of yards, he really hasn't accomplished anything yet. [Reply]
Originally Posted by TwistedChief:
Seriously? Did you listen to his criticism of Mahomes?
The breaks aren't being pumped. This guy is relying upon blind cherrypicking bias. It's really reprehensible and entirely disingenuous. **** him several times over. I'm fine with a genuine critique, but none of that's happening here.
Okay, and that's your opinion. I have mine. I don't even really care about Mangini's opinion about Mahomes. Mangini has always seemed to me to be a guy that has to have his nose rubbed in it before he'll accept a new thing.
I've just heard him critique other players over the years and what he says about Mahomes doesn't sound that different than what he's said about other players. In my opinion. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Oh, I agree with you. But I think the heaps of kudos and praise has already muddied the waters a little when people, including some analysts, talk about Mahomes. Yesterday or this morning, Some ESPN or Fox Sports talking head said that Mahomes is the best player of all time. Or something like that. The other panelists jumped all over that.
I believe that Pat Mahomes is the best QB I've ever seen, and probably will be, if he plays for long enough at something close to the level he's been playing, the best QB the NFL has ever seen.
But the greatest and the best are different. The greatest is about accomplishments, which means rings.
The best, IMO, is about ability, talent, etc. In terms of the ability to throw the ball on time, precisely, consistently, regardless of place, the moment, distance, platform, weather, you name it, Patrick Mahomes is the best QB that's ever played in the NFL, in my opinion. But there's more to being a great QB than just being able to throw the ball well. Even incredibly well.
But other than throw a bunch of TDs for a staggering number of yards, he really hasn't accomplished anything yet.
You mean besides being voted MVP and breaking about 20 NFL records in 20 games? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Halfcan:
You mean besides being voted MVP and breaking about 20 NFL records in 20 games?
Those are nice. And I've been just as excited and proud of Pat and the team as anyone for all of the records he's smashed in 20 games.
But if he flamed out this year, or next, or whatever, how impressive would they be then? Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that will happen. But what if he pulled a CK and nose-dived in the near future?
No one would care. In fact, a lot of people would probably begin to question his accomplishments so far.
On the other hand, if he continued to crush records for the rest of his hopefully long career, fairly consistently, but just never conquered the mountain of winning the Super Bowl, a la Dan Marino or Jim Kelly, then those accomplishments would have a lot more meaning. Right now they just don't have that legendary cachet. Not yet. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Those are nice. And I've been just as excited and proud of Pat and the team as anyone for all of the records he's smashed in 20 games.
But if he flamed out this year, or next, or whatever, how impressive would they be then? Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that will happen. But what if he pulled a CK and nose-dived in the near future?
No one would care. In fact, a lot of people would probably begin to question his accomplishments so far.
On the other hand, if he continued to crush records for the rest of his hopefully long career, fairly consistently, but just never conquered the mountain of winning the Super Bowl, a la Dan Marino or Jim Kelly, then those accomplishments would have a lot more meaning. Right now they just don't have that legendary cachet. Not yet.
He will still be considered the best QB ever in his first 20- games.
I have seen many QB's over the years- and Mahomes is the best I have ever seen with my own two eyes- at Arrowhead or anywhere else. Period.
He was the best QB in the NFL last year and is this year as well so far. Period.
He has already beaten our hated rivals - Donks 3 Times (twice on the Road) Faders 3 Times ( twice on the road) and the Ravens twice- plus knocked the Colts out of the Playoffs (with Luck) and took us to the AFC Championship for the first time at Arrowhead. All in 20 Games!
So when you say he has not done anything- it disingenuous at best. :-) [Reply]
