Originally Posted by Hammock Parties:
It's also missing the two Oladokun snaps.
We need those six snaps before we can judge.
The Oladokun ones don't matter much IMO. He couldn't find an open receiver and scrambled after several seconds for a handful of yards on 3rd down. Even if there were pressure there, he had all day and no one got open. The other snap he handed it off on a run. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
This is what I saw as well. Which makes sense, you see, because it was actual reality.
The actual reality is, DJ was fine. He got beat on a couple of snaps, and otherwise did fine. It's the NFL, and the other guys get paid too, and so expecting peak Willie Roaf is silly.
Morris did better too on the right side than he's ever done on the left side, in my opinion. Everything inside of them was really sketchy. Which makes sense, given that guys are out of position (Kingsley) and wildly inexperienced in actual NFL games.
Regardless, Wince was a pile of indecision and inaccuracy, making it all look much, much worse than it was.
I don't know if there's enough there to win the game, but there were enough plays to be made to have made it respectable.
I saw a guy that Patrick Mahomes is not going to TRUST more than Joe Thuney. That is the only thing that really matters. We've seen the happy feet Mahomes has when he has someone back there he doesn't trust. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BWillie:
I saw a guy that Patrick Mahomes is not going to TRUST more than Joe Thuney. That is the only thing that really matters. We've seen the happy feet Mahomes has when he has someone back there he doesn't trust.
Like you know who Mahomes does and doesn't trust. :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by :
TLDR; What should Andy Reid do?
The short story is, as I’ve alluded to already, the context of Humphries’ snaps Sunday were completely different than Thuney’s. The Chiefs’ offense has been getting the ball out quite fast over the last few weeks with Thuney at LT. They’ve also utilized a lot of rolling pockets, sliding protection, various iterations of play action, and other schematic tricks to lower the volume of pure 1x1 “on an island” pass protection snaps. He was also, of course, playing with Mahomes (who can help fix issues in protection) and an offense that had weapons that were much better at getting open (thus helping the ball come out). And so, as I said, an apples to apples comparison is tough.
But the short story is that Thuney’s “loss percentage” at LT isn’t that much better than Humphries’, especially when factoring in how often Humphries was expected to go 1x1 in space vs Thuney. That’s at least worth considering if you’re the Chiefs. On the flip side of that, while Thuney is much more prone to lose to bull rushes, he’s very rarely had any “instant loss” plays like the two Humphries really got got. That’s worth considering as well. It’s also worth considering that Humphries wasn’t moving as well as he did on film last year and appeared, for the second time in his two appearances at LT for the Chiefs, to play worse as the game went further along.
Keeping Thuney at LT is not what the Chiefs prefer. They would love to have Thuney get back to providing All Pro-caliber play at LG and have someone else provide “OK” play at LT (again, that’s not a shot at Thuney, it’s INCREDIBLE that he’s average to above average at that position).
The problem is that Humphries didn’t show he can provide “OK” play in either of his starts. In this last one he was not quite at the level Thuney has played at (even with all the caveats I’ve mentioned in situation, though frankly the gap isn’t as wide as some people think), and those quick losses are concerning in the way they can completely blow up a play. But he also wasn’t so bad on a snap by snap basis that I can say with any certainty that the Chiefs wouldn’t be better off pulling Caliendo (who has not been good in pass pro especially) for Thuney and keeping Humphries at LT with help, and the fact that he looked better than he did his previous outing is somewhat encouraging.
The Chiefs have several weeks’ worth of practice to make up their minds, and my guess is they’ll do it sooner rather than later (for the sake of reps).
If I were Reid? I think I’d see what Humphries looks like in practice this week, and give him the nod if he has a good week. I value Thuney that much at LG, and I think the line would be slightly better overall, with a significantly higher ceiling.
Am I thrilled about it? No. Have I gone back and forth about 15 times? Yes. But that’s what I’d do if I were Reid. It’s worth it to downgrade the LT spot somewhat to massively upgrade the LG spot, particularly if Humphries looks more comfortable in the offense as he continues to practice.
It’s a risk, though, knowing that Thuney has done enough to have the offense looking functional. Which is why it’s easy for me to make that decision. I’m glad it doesn’t fall on me. Because folks, I honestly don’t know what the right call is here. I just know what I think I’d do. Maybe. IDK. I might change my mind again in the comments.
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Like you know who Mahomes does and doesn't trust. :-)
And we still don't know how much of his decisiveness was Scheme, Thuney or Hollywood.
Because the scheme obviously changed when we put Thuney in. And that's right when we got Hollywood back, who's ability to win quickly also allows that sort of scheme to work.
It also creates a little more space underneath. Moreover, that's when we started using Worthy on shorter catch/run opportunities.
I just don't know that we saw 'trust' in what we saw from Mahomes. It was just precision. He dropped back and fired.
I think we can all see roughly the same things out there, I just don't think we can really draw the sorts of broad conclusions that some are drawing from what we've seen. [Reply]
This offseason is going to be so interesting for LT. The Chiefs have a valuable extra asset. Will they use it and future picks to move up for a guy they love to end the LT carousel?
It wouldn’t surprise me knowing Veach. But that’s a huge risk to take after making an awful decision on Kingsley this year.
On the other hand we’ve seen from picks like Clyde and Felix that you can’t get tunnel vision. Just pick BPA.
Yeah - feels like I'm on about the same page as Seth.
I just don't see how anyone can walk away from that and claim they KNOW what the right answer is. Because I don't see it as being a clear one at all.
Just feels like one where I'm going to defer to Andy. I really cannot draw any obvious conclusions from what we saw Sunday. If you have one issue that you needed to see (i.e. Game Shape) I can see you walking away with a strong opinion. Conversely, if you watched it for 'upside' I can see you having a strong opinion the opposite way -- because when Humphries was locked in, he looked better than Thuney.
It's just going to be a question of risk tolerance. [Reply]
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
One slight positive for the argument to use Hump at LT -- odds are his first playoff start would be against a defense he has already played.
That can't hurt, IMO.
I think it'll be the Chargers. I just can't see Denver or Pittsburgh winning their games and Houston's in a tailspin.
I'd give 2-1 odds that the Chiefs play the Chargers in the Divisional. And I still think the Ravens will dog-walk Buffalo. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Yeah - feels like I'm on about the same page as Seth.
I just don't see how anyone can walk away from that and claim they KNOW what the right answer is. Because I don't see it as being a clear one at all.
Just feels like one where I'm going to defer to Andy. I really cannot draw any obvious conclusions from what we saw Sunday. If you have one issue that you needed to see (i.e. Game Shape) I can see you walking away with a strong opinion. Conversely, if you watched it for 'upside' I can see you having a strong opinion the opposite way -- because when Humphries was locked in, he looked better than Thuney.
It's just going to be a question of risk tolerance.
I don't see how anybody could actually WATCH Thuney's reps at LT and think "yeah, that's our best possible outcome".
On a scale of 1 to 100, he's been about a 60. I've watched all the All 22 - he has SIGNIFICANTLY benefited from changes in play calling, something the staff really hasn't done for any of the other LT candidates.
It's pretty easy to tell what the Chiefs want, and it's NOT Joe Thuney at LT. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
I don't see how anybody could actually WATCH Thuney's reps at LT and think "yeah, that's our best possible outcome".
On a scale of 1 to 100, he's been about a 60. I've watched all the All 22 - he has A SIGNIFICANTLY benefited from changes in play calling, something the staff really hasn't done for any of the other LT candidates.
It's pretty easy to tell what the Chiefs want, and it's NOT Joe Thuney at LT.
I guess the biggest question is....why not?
Or at least, why don't they want to stick with that sort of offense? I mean this quick-hitter stuff is WORKING. And the downfield chemistry with Worthy is still not there. No reason to expect it to show up at this point.
Just do what you did for those 3 weeks. You can win with that.
If the reason they don't want Thuney is because they don't want to run the offense that his presence necessitated, I just have to ask why they're so opposed to that? I get that it's not sexy but if Watson is back healthy and with the return of Omenihu, this defense should be at/near where it was last post-season.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I guess the biggest question is....why not?
Or at least, why don't they want to stick with that sort of offense? I mean this quick-hitter stuff is WORKING. And the downfield chemistry with Worthy is still not there. No reason to expect it to show up at this point.
Just do what you did for those 3 weeks. You can win with that.
If the reason they don't want Thuney is because they don't want to run the offense that his presence necessitated, I just have to ask why they're so opposed to that? I get that it's not sexy but if Watson is back healthy and with the return of Omenihu, this defense should be at/near where it was last post-season.
You don't NEED sexy.
I get it, I really do. But they really want to uncork this offense. That's not gonna happened when you're protecting a LG playing LT. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
I get it, I really do. But they really want to uncork this offense. That's not gonna happened when you're protecting a LG playing LT.
No it's not.
But they 'really wanted to unlock the offense' against TB in the Super Bowl and it fucked them right over.
At a point, you can't let perfect be the enemy of good.
I mean we were just talking about the "buzzsaw playoff run" and yeah, I'd love to see that. But I don't think it's strictly necessary either.
I'd like it - but I'm not sure how much I'd be willing to risk to try to see it. [Reply]
But they 'really wanted to unlock the offense' against TB in the Super Bowl and it fucked them right over.
At a point, you can't let perfect be the enemy of good.
I mean we were just talking about the "buzzsaw playoff run" and yeah, I'd love to see that. But I don't think it's strictly necessary either.
I'd like it - but I'm not sure how much I'd be willing to risk to try to see it.
See, I just don't think what we've watched is "good". It worked fine against the Steelers and Texans, two teams that are spiraling towards death.
We are really going to struggle with this in the playoffs - we are depending on scheme too much and there's going to be a hard counter that someone figures out in the next couple of weeks. [Reply]
