Originally Posted by RunKC:
It wouldn’t have been replaced. OL, OC, RB and TE were significantly better in Minnesota.
Per the Denver Post: “In fact, only 7 drafted players from Elway's first five classes (2011-15) are still on the roster. Ray, Heuerman, Garcia, Roby, Paradis, Wolfe, Miller.”
That’s why the Broncos are bad. They were an old team with mostly key players past their prime and now they are trying to fix that in this draft.
There isn’t any top 10 caliber young talent on Denver’s team (25 or younger)
That’s because players that John Elway has drafted have moved on in free agency as well. Players like Julius Thomas, Woodyard, the other LBer from KY, the defensive lineman that went to the Jags... [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mile High Mania:
Not sure I said it was highly unlikely that KC would ever go on a run... but, let's say I did. I have no issues at all with the talk track happening now. My comment about the two close games in that 0-5 streak was simply to suggest Denver wasn't far from snapping the streak, even last year.
For me, teams rally around leadership and that's especially true at the QB position. Denver has only had two 'leaders' at the position since 2010 - Tebow and Manning. Players rally around those guys. Keenum has done nothing to put himself in that category outside of last year. Yes, the Vikings had/have a hell of a team, but from what I've read - the players connected to him and he played the leader role fairly well.
You get a QB that has leadership ability and things can improve. I think he brings that... we'll soon find out. If I were you guys, I'd totally mock my comments that they can win 10 games as well, just don't forget my other part of that statement. It's not all about QB or Keenum - they have work to do at other spots to make that quest for 10 wins a reality in 2018.
I've never said Keenum alone can do it... he won't repeat 2017 without other upgrades.
The Chiefs have a ton of talent on offense and some question marks on defense. They're not equally balanced with badassery on both sides of the ball. Denver lost Talib, remains to be seen how they play without him. I don't think the world is lost and I believe it was exactly the right time to move on and start fresh with younger guys. They changed the scheme with Wade gone and that impacted how they played.
Broncos could easily finish 3rd or 4th again - all depends on what they do with the $23M in cap space and draft picks. I'm sure they're working the phones for trade options, so we'll see how that goes.
Elway has also not been perfect, you've never heard me say he has been... I do trust him and I trust the process. They went SB or Bust with Manning, and they've achieved both. In hindsight, they made poor choices the last couple of years and it's burned them.
What Elway does now will define his legacy as the leader of that team from the front office... they need to make better decisions in the draft, without question. In about a month, we'll see if they're still playing from the same script.
At this point, it's KC's division to lose... they're in a great position to win 12 games if the defense doesn't fall apart. Everyone else is playing catch up.
My goals for the Broncos this year --- finish above .500 and the only way they do that is to upgrade the OL, find a good 3rd RB for a consistent ground threat and find a capable pass catching TE. Jake Butt could be the guy, but he's an unkown, so they need someone else to be in the mix. They'll address the 3rd WR either in the draft or FA.
They have a handful of moves still left to be made, but they're not far off from realistically being able to win 10 games.
At home, they will take on the Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers, Browns, Steelers, Rams, Seahawks, and Texans.
On the road, they will face the Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers, Bengals, Ravens, Cardinals, 49ers, and Jets.
They split with the Chargers and Raiders last year and were swept by KC (close to splitting) ... go 3-3 in the division in 2018 and things are headed in the right direction.
They have to protect the home field and win 5 at minimum. That means they have to win all the divisional home games (3 wins). Add to that, the Browns, Seahawks and Texans... those teams have their own bag of issues too and it's not unrealistic to think they win those 3 games or just 2 of them.
On the road - Bengals, Ravens, Cardinals and Jets ... 4 games against teams with question marks and issues. Anything can happen.
Protect home field in the division (3), beat the Browns, Texans, Bengals, Ravens, Cardinals and Jets... that's 9 wins. Again - not really jumping the shark there.
LOL! I like how you point out that the Chiefs swept the LP Broncos BUT it was "close to splitting" You do realize that the LP Broncos were "close to losing" ALL of their division games - Right? - :-)
LOL! I like how you point out that the Chiefs swept the LP Broncos BUT it was "close to splitting" You do realize that the LP Broncos were "close to losing" ALL of their division games - Right? That they very easily could have lost at home to the Chargers and Raiders - :-) Yet no mention of that fact.
Sorry bro... I was just addressing the KC games specifically because you know, it's a KC board. My apologies for not counting that one as close or for not recognizing the other brutal losses they endured last year. The Raiders win wasn't really close though... in points, sure, but as it actually played out - no. (10 of their 12 drives ended in either a punt, on downs or an INT) So, that part of your rebuttal is flawed. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ:
That’s because players that John Elway has drafted have moved on in free agency as well. Players like Julius Thomas, Woodyard, the other LBer from KY, the defensive lineman that went to the Jags...
Yeah, free agents. That's it. All 2 you can remember their names. And 2 who were so good you can't. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bewbies:
Yeah, free agents. That's it. All 2 you can remember their names. And 2 who were so good you can't.
Well, there have been a few they should have resigned... Trevathan, Malik Jackson, Orlando Franklin, Sylvester Williams, Webster, Dumervil (although not an Elway drafted pick)
They should have resigned a couple of those guys, but they didn't...
Again, the greatness of the team was built primarily through FA and rightfully so given the window they created by signing Manning. Now, is when Elway gets to correct the poor decisions of the last few seasons, bad drafts and change his legacy as the leader of the team from the front office.
He has a lot of work to do... no doubt about it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ:
That’s because players that John Elway has drafted have moved on in free agency as well. Players like Julius Thomas, Woodyard, the other LBer from KY, the defensive lineman that went to the Jags...
Isn’t re-signing players part of the job?
You know what’s really bad about that?
Look what Elway spent the $ on...
Menelik Watson
Donald Stevenson
CJ Anderson
Emmanuel Sanders
Tried to give Osweiler 18m per
Jamaal Charles
Brandon Marshall
Case Keenum
And the guys Elway has re-signed haven’t done anything since getting new deals.
The guys that leave (and some that stay) clown Elway in interviews and on social media.
And he’s been worse in the draft...
That’s why Denver has been on a downward trajectory since Manning retired.
Manning ran the show in Denver, Elway was a puppet. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BossChief:
Look what Elway spent the $ on...
Menelik Watson - totally agree with you
Donald Stevenson - totally agree with you CJ Anderson - pretty solid contract, had his best year in 2017 Emmanuel Sanders - well worth the money
Tried to give Osweiler 18m per - thank Houston
Jamaal Charles - really? It was an incredibly cheap deal Brandon Marshall - well worth the money
Case Keenum - jury is out
In FA, yes the first 2 guys were failed. CJ, Sanders and DT? I think classifying them as failed is a stretch. Charles was such a nothing investment.
I think the failure has been more around who they didn't resign, that cost them Campbell last year. If they had kept Malik, I'll bet Campbell would have picked them. [Reply]
CJ is being paid like a top 10 RB and has barely given Denver 1 1000 yard season.
Sanders gave you 555 yards for 10 million in the first year of his new deal.
Brandon Marshall is very overrated and gets exposed in the pass game a lot.
Originally Posted by BossChief:
CJ is being paid like a top 10 RB and has barely given Denver 1 1000 yard season.
Sanders gave you 555 yards for 10 million in the first year of his new deal.
Brandon Marshall is very overrated and gets exposed in the pass game a lot.
Like I said...
Anderson's contract ranks him 12th overall going into this season... fairly in line with other RBs of similar production.
DT ranks 10th this year, Sanders tied for 15th. Again, looking at some of the guys around them in those rankings - no issues.
Obviously, 2017 was a terrible year for them offensively... Sanders and Marshall are paid in line with what they deserve to be paid and both should see an increase in production with Keenum.
2019 is the last contract year for both guys and their cap hits make them targets for trade or cut with minimal impact ... unless they return to solid production and earn their next and likely last big $ deals from Denver. [Reply]
It still boils down to improving the OL... that's it. They do that and it keeps pressure off the QB and gives him time, Keenum showed a lot of poise and pocket awareness last year.
DT/Sanders ... Thielen/Diggs - there's not a drop off here. Prior to 2017, Thielen was a JAG. Diggs is a stud and both awakened in 2017.
The OL improvements will also bridge the difference in production at RB. The bulk of the production difference in 2017 with the Vikings duo and Denver's duo was TDs, combined yardage wasn't too terribly different (it was higher, but the main difference was TDs).
McKinnon's pass catching ability and Rudolph's presence at TE... those are the 2 pieces of the puzzle missing in Denver right now.
Upgrade the OL - that goes a long way, then it's all about what type of increase can they get from the 2nd RB and TE.
Easy? No... Impossible to do before training camp? No... [Reply]
This has been a laughably homeristic couple of pages. Broncos are ageing and have plenty of holes. Keenum might be solid, but he doesnt have near the talent he had on the vikings - both on offense and defense. The broncos are an 8-8 team at best and should really be thinking about a hard rebuild. They have hardly any young talent and a gm who has proven to be incredibly hit or miss at drafting. Shoot, for a mediocre 10- 6 season to happen, things would have to fall perfectly. Maybe they could do that if they stay incredibly healthy, Barkley falls to them, and Keenum improves his game further. But what does that achieve? An ageing roster with basically no chance of getting to the super bowl. As a chiefs fan, im more than happy for Elway to shoot for purgatory. [Reply]
Yep, the best thing is watching Denver go backwards with Elways drafting. They may get a good pick at 5 this year but not if they take a QB. They should get Chubb or Barkely or a guard /Tackle. After that rounds 2-7 will be a waste. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe:
Too bad the guy who drafted all of KC's good young players is in Cleveland now.
Not at all. If anything, we're much better off in that department and one draft away from confirming 100% that our current GM was not only the right man, but the BETTER man than his predecessor.
If Veach pulls a sick draft, then KC is in possession of the most dynamic and aggressive-yet pragmatic GM in the entire division if not conference.
It takes a LOT for a Chiefs GM to impress me, and so far Veach is just KILLING it.
Did I mention he's very young with MANY good years of work ahead of him and that Clark has a tendency to keep and pay that position more so than all others?... :-)
Say it with me KnowMo:
"DECADES of top-tier GM performance now playing in Kansas City".
Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe:
KC wins the argument when it comes to high quality young players. Denver still has the better roster, but their good, young players aren't Pro Bowlers (yet) they're just good.
