One of the best WR prospects at the catch point and winning leverage mid-route. He consistently sets up defenders to put them on his back, locates the ball, and attacks it at the highest point.
Rashee Rice was drafted with pick 55 of round 2 in the 2023 draft class. He scored a 9.53 #RAS out of a possible 10.00. This ranked 145 out of 3062 WR from 1987 to 2023. https://t.co/lwD9tvVPvvpic.twitter.com/YjucxErSE1
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Oh I don't think anyone looks for a lesser player - especially if you're drafting one in the first round.
But I'm going to assume you're making a different argument - notably that you'd rather not trade ceiling for floor. You don't want to pass on a potential #1 for a more sure thing who will be a viable #2.
But...isn't that kinda what we both were eager to do with Emeka Egbuka? I don't think either of us saw him as a potential superstar yet he seemed like such a sure thing as a strong NFL contributor that we'd have been more than happy to take him even if he's less likely than say Legette or Walker to be a 1.
(And if that's NOT what you were trying to say, I have no idea what it may be - are you saying don't look for a complement to Rice but rather just the best collection of skills you can find even if some of those are redundant when paired with Rice?)
I'd trade some of it for Egbuka but I also think his upside is higher than you do. I love that dude with his route running and such here. But for the most part, I think you start looking for that guy in the 3rd round.
In the first, I'm just pretty much out on a WR or the ones that are gonna be there when I can take an upside swing on Legette in round 2 (theoretically).
I also go with the thought that we're dealing with a bit of a force multiplier here at QB and HC, so there should be a bit of a bump in numbers and skill from that. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
I'd trade some of it for Egbuka but I also think his upside is higher than you do. I love that dude with his route running and such here. But for the most part, I think you start looking for that guy in the 3rd round.
In the first, I'm just pretty much out on a WR or the ones that are gonna be there when I can take an upside swing on Legette in round 2 (theoretically).
Someobody is going to fall in love with Legette's measurables and his productivity this season. Lack of production prior be damned - that combination is going to turn at least one head.
If you want Legette, you're taking him in the 1st (IMO). If you're looking for a 2nd round guy I think you're maybe looking at Polk if you're lucky. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Someobody is going to fall in love with Legette's measurables and his productivity this season. Lack of production prior be damned - that combination is going to turn at least one head.
If you want Legette, you're taking him in the 1st (IMO). If you're looking for a 2nd round guy I think you're maybe looking at Polk if you're lucky.
If I have to....if I could explain the lack of production....I'd probably do it. [Reply]
I'd love it if the Chiefs could find a "WR 1" to pair with Rice. "WR 1" meaning speed, routes and hands.
Rice is great after the catch (he's great overall) but he isn't a burner and his hands are not the best. So much of Rice's production this year started with short passes and/ or passes behind the LOS. Chiefs would do well to draft a deep threat guy.
On a related topic, am I off or did the Chiefs abandon the Jet Sweep this year? I certainly did not keep record of it but my casual observation is that we just lost that play out of the playbook this year. Didn't really see it even when Hardman returned. [Reply]
Originally Posted by TwistedChief:
In all seriousness, can you imagine how absolutely ****ing stupid it is to basically say, “If you ignore how good Rice is and ignore the fact that Veach won a SB largely with this level of WR talent last year, he’s been an absolute failure.”?
I didn’t say Veach has been an absolute failure. I said he has not done a good enough job in the wide receiver room after the hill trade. Maybe terrible was too strong a word, as after all he did get Rice. But clearly what he has done in the draft and the free Asian market has not been enough to give Mahomes the receivers he needs. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn’t watched any games this year. [Reply]
Originally Posted by gordonelloyd:
I didn’t say Veach has been an absolute failure. I said he has not done a good enough job in the wide receiver room after the hill trade. Maybe terrible was too strong a word, as after all he did get Rice. But clearly what he has done in the draft and the free Asian market has not been enough to give Mahomes the receivers he needs. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn’t watched any games this year.
What the Chiefs did in the WR room in 2022 absolutely was "enough" to give Mahomes what he needed. The Chiefs were an efficient, balanced, and explosive offense that led the NFL in most advanced and standard passing categories. It was enough for Mahomes to be the league MVP, again.
What they did in 2023 was not enough, as of current date. That required a lot of factors to fail:
Valdes-Scantling regressing badly
+
Toney and Moore both failing to take a step forward
+
Veteran Toney/Moore insurance policy Richie James getting hurt early
If even one of those things is different, it probably looks a lot more like 2022.
Either way, saying they have failed at this since the Hill trade, period, is not accurate. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
What the Chiefs did in the WR room in 2022 absolutely was "enough" to give Mahomes what he needed. The Chiefs were an efficient, balanced, and explosive offense that led the NFL in most advanced and standard passing categories. It was enough for Mahomes to be the league MVP, again.
What they did in 2023 was not enough, as of current date. That required a lot of factors to fail:
Valdes-Scantling regressing badly
+
Toney and Moore both failing to take a step forward
+
Veteran Toney/Moore insurance policy Richie James getting hurt early
If even one of those things is different, it probably looks a lot more like 2022.
Either way, saying they have failed at this since the Hill trade, period, is not accurate.
Nick Wright made a good point -- The Bills defense was 9th in the league and is seen as an asset to their playoff run.
The Chiefs offense was 9th in the league and is seen as a clusterfuck built by reeruned monkeys.
Perspective is a funny thing. And a BUNCH of people - seemingly a large chunk of the fanbase - is sorely lacking in it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
What the Chiefs did in the WR room in 2022 absolutely was "enough" to give Mahomes what he needed. The Chiefs were an efficient, balanced, and explosive offense that led the NFL in most advanced and standard passing categories. It was enough for Mahomes to be the league MVP, again.
What they did in 2023 was not enough, as of current date. That required a lot of factors to fail:
Valdes-Scantling regressing badly
+
Toney and Moore both failing to take a step forward
+
Veteran Toney/Moore insurance policy Richie James getting hurt early
If even one of those things is different, it probably looks a lot more like 2022.
Either way, saying they have failed at this since the Hill trade, period, is not accurate.
While true I also think we're underestimating our ceiling when we compare ourselves to others. There's one school of doing just fine without help. Another school that says if we do this well with serious flaws, imagine what aliens Reid and mahomes become with more help. because to me we should always be in the conversation for #1 and our ceiling is to sprint away from the next closest #2 offense
For me, it's all the basic things we can't do that justify the need. It's quite amazing when you consider all the throws mahomes is not allowed to make because our WRs really have to have the ball spoonfed to them just for the chance to make a catch. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Nick Wright made a good point -- The Bills offense was 9th in the league and is seen as an asset to their playoff run.
The Chiefs offense was 9th in the league and is seen as a clusterfuck built by reeruned monkeys.
Perspective is a funny thing. And a BUNCH of people - seemingly a large chunk of the fanbase - is sorely lacking in it.
It is wild, indeed.
The big separator between the two offenses is that Buffalo had a better red zone efficiency, because Josh Allen's running ability is a weapon in the red zone, and they are willing to use him as a runner all season.
The Chiefs really don't actively use Mahomes as a red zone weapon during the regular season, except in the rare must-have spot (and those are usually scramble situations).
The Chiefs were actually better at moving the ball and sustaining drives. [Reply]
It's actually brilliant how Mahomes does it. Because he probably could be a halfway effective dual threat year round but I'm assuming both Mahomes and Reid have come to the understanding we keep that card in the hand unless it's absolutely critical. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
It is wild, indeed.
The big separator between the two offenses is that Buffalo had a better red zone efficiency, because Josh Allen's running ability is a weapon in the red zone, and they are willing to use him as a runner all season.
The Chiefs really don't actively use Mahomes as a red zone weapon during the regular season, except in the rare must-have spot (and those are usually scramble situations).
The Chiefs were actually better at moving the ball and sustaining drives.
Pat said it in the interview - come playoff time, he does things differently.
He acknowledged that he leaves yards on the field in the regular season because he's not as young as he used to be. He's gotta avoid some of those hits. But in the post-season, he's going to hang it all out there.
I don't expect that Mahomes will make a bigger impact with his legs than Allen in this game. But I wouldn't be surprised if it happened. [Reply]