Little tuff to see, but these two doe. Never done it before, so I have no idea how they'll turn out.



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This stuff went on today.



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Good job dad. Its all about values
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I have a question. (Please keep in mind that I grew up hunting quail and pheasant and deer and elk in CO, so don't go all redneck on me.)

I have friends who shoot deer using camouflage and tree stands while another friend of mine (now deceased) used to put out food for turkeys then shoot them when they showed up. My question is this; do you guys actually consider this "hunting"? Or is it really something else?

FAX
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Perhaps "deering" might make the term more accurate for some because things have changed as time has moved forward, but it is modern hunting and the big difference are the power and accuracy of the weapons used. The indians used camo and arrows, we use camo (with blaze orange) and .243/.30-06/.308 etc., with really good scopes. But you still have to play the wind, play the time, play the season, and prepare yourself to not be seen.

But those who bow hunt, other than technologically superior bows when compared to what people did just 100 years ago, really are "hunting" much closer to what hunters did 100 years ago than on the rifle side.

But I'll be the first to admit that the 125 yard shot my son put exactly where he/we wanted would have been far more difficult 100 years ago. From the ammunition, the the rifle, to having scopes, we have it much easier than rifle hunters had it 100 years ago.

Too redneck? I hope not, I'm a city boy who grew up on the coast shaping surfboards!
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It isn't the technology that I'm asking about, Mr. GloryDayz ... not really (although I suppose that's a factor). And there is a certain amount of skill involved in bringing down a deer with one shot ... no question about that.

I'm talking about the concept itself. Guys around here are setting up tree stands, enjoying beverages while they wait, then peg the deer as they pass by. I question whether or not this is really "hunting". To me, a better term would be "harvesting". The deer are so plentiful around here, it's obviously a necessary activity and I'm not morally opposed to it. I just wonder about the "hunting" part. I guess I don't see a lot of "hunting" going on.

FAX
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Depends on the tree stand. I also do a fair amount of stalking. Killed a nice 5x5 Muley this year in a sharp cutout during a stalk with my bow. I personally use actual tree stands- exposed to the elements, not the enclosed lawn mower sheds on stilts. I don't consider that sporting. With a bow you have to study the deer to find patterns and locations. If you're a trophy hunter, you need to find that 1 specific deer, get in it's territory and beat it 1 on 1. Yeah, you have a bow that can shot 50 yards, maybe more. But they have vastly superior knowledge of the area, better ears, nose and their eyes are phenominal at catching movement. It's not as easy as it sounds. The bigger the deer you're looking for, the less of them and the lower chance you'll find it. That's why you hear about people hunting the same deer for 3-4 years. Plus the deer aren't always going to be there. They have other areas they visit, during rut they may only visit a certain area once every 4 days and there's a chance they don't come at all if they lock down with a doe.

Baiting deer with corn is bullshit IMO. I think it's unfair. It's why i don't like those bear stations either. You're forcing the animal to disobey all it knows for an easy meal in your area. Bait stations are as cheap as shooting fenced in deer.
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Keep updating on those deer hides, it's interesting stuff.

I've been into doing European mounts the last few years. They've turned out damn good. I could probably find some pictures if anyone cares.
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Well it is officially termed harvesting in the tagging process, so that's right too.

But sitting in a tree is how it's been done for millennia, so I guess, other than the technological upgrades, it hasn't really changed. But is fishing "fishing" since you're sitting in a boat and using a pole? But I can appreciate the difference between sitting in a treestand and waiting and hunting from the ground on the move, the latter is a different style.

And yes, this year the deer were particularly populous. On the ~400 acres we harvest on, there were 16 taken, and there appear to be plenty left. His neighbor to the south, 850 acres, had 24 taken and they're still suffering above average car v. deer accidents.
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Quality post.
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Here was our first attempt at a European mount earlier this year with his first buck. The neighbors thought the boiling of the head was kind of cool. They want one for their garage wall. Ha..




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There are several elements to this question...

1st - Baiting is illegal on Public land in Kansas. It is legal on Private land. That's all up to a hunter's personal ethics at that point. Is hunting over a corn field where deer happen to show up the same thing? If you hunt over a natural food source, like acorns, is that the same thing? There are grey lines everywhere, and folks just have to come to terms with their own ethical standards.

2nd - Turkeys suck. So, whatever it takes to shoot those bastards, I'm in favor of...
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I don't think it's nearly as bad as high fence, but that's just me.
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All great questions from Mr. FAX, and I think he's right, technically we're harvesting.

From there it opens a lot of interesting questions (that weren't really in the original question). And has been stated, it's governed by everything from local laws to personal ethics.

Not that putting corn down is much different than leaving some corn standing, but it's tons different than an automated feed station. It's not my preference, but I'm not going to be critical of others who do.

But hey, I used to chum the water a lot when we off-shore fished.. :-)

And, and people who hunt with alcohol in their possession can fuck off. We may have beers after the day is done, but nothing before or during. IOW, guns and alcohol don't mix. And I make an AWESOME deer skinning martini... :-)
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"Hunting," by Kansas statutory definition, is the taking of wildlife, and "take" is a variety of verbs (harass, harm, shoot, wound, kill, pursue, molest, trap, capture, collect, catch, possess, or otherwise take.

So, yes, it is technically hunting, but I assume you meant a more philosophical definition (i.e. what is a real man/drink/knife/American).

The previous posters hit the main points, but there's another big one:

Outfitting.

I don't know about Colorado, but outfitting (the profession of selling hunting experiences) has overtaken Kansas. Most of the good hunting ground gets leased to outfitters, who then charge primarily out-of-state hunters to hunt.

Especially true for deer hunting, the current and future success of the outfitter is getting his clients a big deer (a large enough deer often costs more), so providing an easy, comfortable experience (heated tower blinds, corn-trained deer, limiting access only to paying customers, etc.) is a must.

Problem is, when everybody artificially feeds the deer, it changes the deer's natural behavior, so a naturally trained deer hunter will be at a disadvantage, and most are forced to play the game in order to have a chance.

Feeding (baiting) deer is not legal in every state, and it's illegal everywhere for migratory birds.
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