Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
You do realize we made the super bowl last year with 4 trash OL, right? Yes, they are even as rookies better than trash. Orlando brown and Thuney are excellent. Right away we've upgraded because we have 2 solid OL vs 1. Wylie, duvarney-tardiff and Remmers are still on the chiefs just so you know. So three of last years OL starters were beat out by the guys who are now starting. Creed Humphrey is a high upside rookie replacing last years starting center (Reiter) so bad he can't sign anywhere. And he starts because he beat a solid veteran (Austin blythe) for the position. The OL is young and may need time to gel. But your comment is ignorant to how bad their OL was last year.
And even your own board knows that claiming you'll stop kelce by throwing a guy on him is absurd. He is easily one of the best receiving TEs to ever play the game.
The only shot you have is a secondary, which I've been more than fair in saying is improved, can confuse mahomes with woods cover 3 scheme. We've seen zone work before with elite talent. Clevelands defense is good but they don't have nearly the same talent as the chargers, 49ers, bucs to pull that off.
The other shot is to win in a shootout. I won't knock on their offense. Stefanskis built a real good system there and our defense should be solid, but the Chiefs have gotten to slow starts in the past. He's learned to use baker as a better version of Kirk cousins. Good on them.
And Chris jones has played a ton of DE. It's not a position change for him and he is not giving up the DT position. They'll move him around like Aaron Donald across the line.
I respect their offense But that's a hell of an ask to outgun the Chiefs who have way more offensive talent than last year. The only loss is Watkins, but the Chiefs are more than used to playing and excelling on offense without him.
the browns i dont think can compete in a shootout. they will need to force FG's and not give up TD's to have a chance.
It will be interesting how KC plays the browns compared to the Divisional game.
KC didnt respect any of the browns WR's to get open VS press man because they didnt have a ton of speed. landry.. slow DPJ rookie higgins ..slow. baker had to make a ton of tight window throws because of this.
will KC play man with 9-10 in the box like last time to stop the run with Schwartz ran a 10.07 sec 100m and OBJ on the field. if they do i see the browns taking more deep shots than last game. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Porkchopexpress:
I feel honored to be quoted here.
But let’s talk, no trolling here.
Do you you think your O line is as good as it was the start of last season?
Personally I don’t think it is, it’s better than what you ended the season with but essentially 2 rookies and thuney is a stud but you can laugh at the browns front 4 but it is not going to be some walk in the park. They will generate pressure.
And Tampa had a great game plan, keep kelce underneath, bottle him up, get hill lined up with cb and saftey over top and let anyone else beat you. Watkins provided some relief and not sure if hardman will do it.
Browns do have 9 new starters on D but cranked up the level of speed at all spots and brought in real dbs. I think it’s going to be fun game.
Do you think the D line with swapping jones out who was IMO the best DT in the afc at end for reed is an improvement?
Like it or not the browns do have one of if not the best olines in the league.
The browns offense presents issues, they can be heavy and physical on the ground, the rbs can be used as receivers, two tight ends, and a well rounded group of wrs.
Sorry for thinking this is going to be a good game or even presenting actual arguments. I get it, you guys are homers, have a great qb but you didn’t go 17-0 and frankly there were some flaws exposed by the bucs.
The game is going to be a lot tighter than you guys expect what was my point.
Don't feel honored. I quoted your post because it was ignorant. No offense. [Reply]
I suspect that the Browns will let the Chiefs win this early game just in case the Chiefs squeak through the wild card round and visit Cleveland later in the playoffs. I could be wrong, of course, but it seems like the smart move. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Porkchopexpress:
I feel honored to be quoted here.
But let’s talk, no trolling here.
Do you you think your O line is as good as it was the start of last season?
Personally I don’t think it is, it’s better than what you ended the season with but essentially 2 rookies and thuney is a stud but you can laugh at the browns front 4 but it is not going to be some walk in the park. They will generate pressure.
And Tampa had a great game plan, keep kelce underneath, bottle him up, get hill lined up with cb and saftey over top and let anyone else beat you. Watkins provided some relief and not sure if hardman will do it.
Browns do have 9 new starters on D but cranked up the level of speed at all spots and brought in real dbs. I think it’s going to be fun game.
Do you think the D line with swapping jones out who was IMO the best DT in the afc at end for reed is an improvement?
Like it or not the browns do have one of if not the best olines in the league.
The browns offense presents issues, they can be heavy and physical on the ground, the rbs can be used as receivers, two tight ends, and a well rounded group of wrs.
Sorry for thinking this is going to be a good game or even presenting actual arguments. I get it, you guys are homers, have a great qb but you didn’t go 17-0 and frankly there were some flaws exposed by the bucs.
The game is going to be a lot tighter than you guys expect what was my point.
Welcome. Don't troll and you'll get along fine (other than being told to drink bleach and die in an AIDS fire, but that's how we show affection around here).
The Chiefs' OL is massively improved on the interior from last season, even when fully healthy, has a basic wash at LT, and is downgraded at RT if you compare to healthy Mitchell Schwartz (who never really showed up last season) and upgraded if you compare to Mike Remmers (who is on the roster and now a backup).
One thing that is overlooked in this is that the Chiefs' interior weakness was in run-blocking, and that created an opportunity for defenses. If you could rush 4 and stop the run and generate pressure against that unit, you could find success in slowing the Chiefs' O down.
With the upgrades at LG (massive upgrade in both phases), C (massive run blocking upgrade, no downgrade in pass blocking), and RG (just an enormous, enormous upgrade in run blocking and likely one in pass blocking, too), teams that try to rush four, drop 7 AND drop 2 safeties extremely deep are going to find themselves punished much more by the Chiefs running game because that personnel is just better situated to do that.
The Chiefs were also not very athletic on the interior and could not run the screen game very effectively. To the point that Reid just stopped trying very much. That's a big part of the O that will be back.
The upgrades at TE also will make a difference. The Chiefs have a much better unit there and will be able to run a lot more 2 TE and 3 TE sets, which will improve their red zone offense and also let them do creative things with moving the pocket.
As for the defensive line, Jones has been phenomenal at DE or DT and looks primed for an enormous year. Yes, the Chiefs DL is better with Jones at LE and Jarran Reed playing DT. Reed obviously isn't as good as Jones, but he's much better at DT than the best LE option the Chiefs had last year was at LE.
All in all, yes, Tampa did have a good gameplan. It also had a wealth of factors working in its favor to "play up" that game plan.
1) The Chiefs OL was: A LT who is now their reserve RT; a LG who is now a reserve C, if he makes the team; a C who PFF loved but is currently UNSIGNED by any NFL team; a RG who is now retired and planning to become a minister; a RT who is now a reserve RG, if he even makes the team. Literally, the 3 guys that are returning from that unit are the #6, 8 and 9 playes on the two deep come week 1.
2) Mahomes had turf toe and couldn't move as well as normal
3) The Tampa DL is one of the 2-3 most talented units in the NFL
4) The Tampa LB duo of David and White is fantastic.
Teams that think that situation is replicable are dreaming. The Chiefs upgraded personnel specifically to adjust to that approach to defending them.
The Browns made nice upgrades across the board on D. The addition of speed and secondary players will help them a lot. But you can't say the Chiefs OL is going to need time to gel (as many have) while also assuming the Browns D will hit the ground running.
The Chiefs also improved. They're going to be better at OL than what you saw in the playoffs (even in Game 1). They're going to be better on the DL than what you saw in the playoffs. They're going to be better at LB than what you saw in the playoffs. They're going to be better at TE. They'll be better at QB than what you saw for almost all of the second half.
The Chiefs have lost two actual games they tried to win since the first week of November, 2019. In one, they had 17 points taken off the board by questionable whistles and lost by a single score to a hated rival that based its entire season on the game. The other was the Super Bowl, with some extreme circumstances (and that, despite alll those, was just a couple of fairly routine plays away from making it much more of a game than it ended up being - Hill TD that was but not challenged, the ball that hit Williams in the facemask in the end zone).
KC has been to 3 straight AFC title games and 2 straight Super Bowls. And people are surprised fans here are confident?
The Browns are a good team and have a chance to upset KC, sure. But nobody here is going to cower about it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Yup, and you're being VERY generous by showing our original starters last year considering that schwartz and osemele barely played last year.
Yeah, but Brown Fan did ask about the OL that we started the season with.
A more accurate comparison would be our current line compared to:
Fisher-Allegretti-Reiter-Wylie-Remmers
If Brown is better than Fisher, then we upgraded all 5 spots. The 3 interior positions significantly so. [Reply]
Clearly browns fans dont understand our upgrades in depth like we do, and we dont fully grasp theirs. I do expect their offense to be clicking even a little better with another year in Stefanskis system, and Odell back. However Kansas City finally has most of the horses to run Spags system. We're probably a true D end short still but this is a much improved D talent wise from what its been. And the offensive line has been league average or worse Mahomes entire career. People wont really understand that until they see him with a decent line. He's been spinning it with two tackles and other teams left overs and udfa's. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Welcome. Don't troll and you'll get along fine (other than being told to drink bleach and die in an AIDS fire, but that's how we show affection around here).
The Chiefs' OL is massively improved on the interior from last season, even when fully healthy, has a basic wash at LT, and is downgraded at RT if you compare to healthy Mitchell Schwartz (who never really showed up last season) and upgraded if you compare to Mike Remmers (who is on the roster and now a backup).
One thing that is overlooked in this is that the Chiefs' interior weakness was in run-blocking, and that created an opportunity for defenses. If you could rush 4 and stop the run and generate pressure against that unit, you could find success in slowing the Chiefs' O down.
With the upgrades at LG (massive upgrade in both phases), C (massive run blocking upgrade, no downgrade in pass blocking), and RG (just an enormous, enormous upgrade in run blocking and likely one in pass blocking, too), teams that try to rush four, drop 7 AND drop 2 safeties extremely deep are going to find themselves punished much more by the Chiefs running game because that personnel is just better situated to do that.
The Chiefs were also not very athletic on the interior and could not run the screen game very effectively. To the point that Reid just stopped trying very much. That's a big part of the O that will be back.
The upgrades at TE also will make a difference. The Chiefs have a much better unit there and will be able to run a lot more 2 TE and 3 TE sets, which will improve their red zone offense and also let them do creative things with moving the pocket.
As for the defensive line, Jones has been phenomenal at DE or DT and looks primed for an enormous year. Yes, the Chiefs DL is better with Jones at LE and Jarran Reed playing DT. Reed obviously isn't as good as Jones, but he's much better at DT than the best LE option the Chiefs had last year was at LE.
All in all, yes, Tampa did have a good gameplan. It also had a wealth of factors working in its favor to "play up" that game plan.
1) The Chiefs OL was: A LT who is now their reserve RT; a LG who is now a reserve C, if he makes the team; a C who PFF loved but is currently UNSIGNED by any NFL team; a RG who is now retired and planning to become a minister; a RT who is now a reserve RG, if he even makes the team. Literally, the 3 guys that are returning from that unit are the #6, 8 and 9 playes on the two deep come week 1.
2) Mahomes had turf toe and couldn't move as well as normal
3) The Tampa DL is one of the 2-3 most talented units in the NFL
4) The Tampa LB duo of David and White is fantastic.
Teams that think that situation is replicable are dreaming. The Chiefs upgraded personnel specifically to adjust to that approach to defending them.
The Browns made nice upgrades across the board on D. The addition of speed and secondary players will help them a lot. But you can't say the Chiefs OL is going to need time to gel (as many have) while also assuming the Browns D will hit the ground running.
The Chiefs also improved. They're going to be better at OL than what you saw in the playoffs (even in Game 1). They're going to be better on the DL than what you saw in the playoffs. They're going to be better at LB than what you saw in the playoffs. They're going to be better at TE. They'll be better at QB than what you saw for almost all of the second half.
The Chiefs have lost two actual games they tried to win since the first week of November, 2019. In one, they had 17 points taken off the board by questionable whistles and lost by a single score to a hated rival that based its entire season on the game. The other was the Super Bowl, with some extreme circumstances (and that, despite alll those, was just a couple of fairly routine plays away from making it much more of a game than it ended up being - Hill TD that was but not challenged, the ball that hit Williams in the facemask in the end zone).
KC has been to 3 straight AFC title games and 2 straight Super Bowls. And people are surprised fans here are confident?
The Browns are a good team and have a chance to upset KC, sure. But nobody here is going to cower about it.
It's actually kind of amazing that we were able to run the ball at all with how bad our interior was. But yet we did effectively even behind a shit OL. The bills game was a clinic where they decided they were going to force us to run and we jammed it down their throat.
Absolutely right as well on screens and playaction. Those were unheard of because the pocket got pushed into mahomes immediately. Every single time. That is a game changer. We saw a taste of it in Minnesota where Andy was having a blast with misdirection. Amazing to think how dominant our passing game has been without much help from playaction, screens, and often times the running game. Now we will punish defenses that get too aggressive. Which opens up a beautiful world of deception. All from Andy Reid, maybe the best screen game coach in history who's barely even tapped into this superpower during mahomes era. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco:
I suspect that the Browns will let the Chiefs win this early game just in case the Chiefs squeak through the wild card round and visit Cleveland later in the playoffs. I could be wrong, of course, but it seems like the smart move.
The thing fans of other teams don’t seem to understand is that the Chiefs offensive line doesn’t have to improve for the Chiefs to be an elite offense and go back to the Super Bowl. So even if somehow the new line isn’t better and is just the same they are still Super Bowl favorites. An improved line is just making them almost unbeatable.
The Browns defense improving drastically means they just become average. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Porkchopexpress:
I feel honored to be quoted here.
But let’s talk, no trolling here.
Do you you think your O line is as good as it was the start of last season?
Personally I don’t think it is, it’s better than what you ended the season with but essentially 2 rookies and thuney is a stud but you can laugh at the browns front 4 but it is not going to be some walk in the park. They will generate pressure.
And Tampa had a great game plan, keep kelce underneath, bottle him up, get hill lined up with cb and saftey over top and let anyone else beat you. Watkins provided some relief and not sure if hardman will do it.
Browns do have 9 new starters on D but cranked up the level of speed at all spots and brought in real dbs. I think it’s going to be fun game.
Do you think the D line with swapping jones out who was IMO the best DT in the afc at end for reed is an improvement?
Like it or not the browns do have one of if not the best olines in the league.
The browns offense presents issues, they can be heavy and physical on the ground, the rbs can be used as receivers, two tight ends, and a well rounded group of wrs.
Sorry for thinking this is going to be a good game or even presenting actual arguments. I get it, you guys are homers, have a great qb but you didn’t go 17-0 and frankly there were some flaws exposed by the bucs.
The game is going to be a lot tighter than you guys expect what was my point.
Tampa didn’t figure out some magical game plan. They pressured Mahomes at the highest rate in Super Bowl history. I know opposing fans don’t understand this but there is no game plan to win. There is only pressuring consistently with four d linemen for a full four quarters. That’s it. If you don’t pressure with four for a full quarters you give up 21 points in seven minutes and lose the Super Bowl like the 49ers did. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Porkchopexpress:
I feel honored to be quoted here.
But let’s talk, no trolling here.
Do you you think your O line is as good as it was the start of last season?
Personally I don’t think it is, it’s better than what you ended the season with but essentially 2 rookies and thuney is a stud but you can laugh at the browns front 4 but it is not going to be some walk in the park. They will generate pressure. And Tampa had a great game plan, keep kelce underneath, bottle him up, get hill lined up with cb and saftey over top and let anyone else beat you. Watkins provided some relief and not sure if hardman will do it.
Browns do have 9 new starters on D but cranked up the level of speed at all spots and brought in real dbs. I think it’s going to be fun game.
Do you think the D line with swapping jones out who was IMO the best DT in the afc at end for reed is an improvement?
Like it or not the browns do have one of if not the best olines in the league.
The browns offense presents issues, they can be heavy and physical on the ground, the rbs can be used as receivers, two tight ends, and a well rounded group of wrs.
Sorry for thinking this is going to be a good game or even presenting actual arguments. I get it, you guys are homers, have a great qb but you didn’t go 17-0 and frankly there were some flaws exposed by the bucs.
The game is going to be a lot tighter than you guys expect what was my point.
In spite of all that had KC not been playing almost all backups on the Oline due to injuries it wouldn't have mattered. See what KC did to Tampa earlier in the season. That was with a banged up line that at least still had Fisher. Not promising KC would have won the SB with Fisher, but it would have been a much closer game. [Reply]
Originally Posted by mr. tegu:
Tampa didn’t figure out some magical game plan. They pressured Mahomes at the highest rate in Super Bowl history. I know opposing fans don’t understand this but there is no game plan to win. There is only pressuring consistently with four d linemen for a full four quarters. That’s it. If you don’t pressure with four for a full quarters you give up 21 points in seven minutes and lose the Super Bowl like the 49ers did.
Stunning how that seems to work against the best QBs in the league everytime. I wonder how Brady would have done if he faced the same pressure Mahomes did. [Reply]
