- Ranked 2nd among charted prospects in success rate vs. man (75%) and press coverage (75.7%) - Led all prospects in success rate vs. zone coverage (88.1%) - He can play inside and outsidehttps://t.co/HbifB61JlJpic.twitter.com/HYsV8rlAzF
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
We didn't draft him to return punts.
I can see this point. Mahomes throws you the ball and you weren't in the spot you were supposed to be.... everyone in the stadium knows he's pissed off at you. That seems to piss him off on the field more than anything,
He gets openly frustrated by 'effort' mistakes more than anything.
Think of the times he's really gotten on Hardman in the past and again on Moore this season - they're plays where the guy didn't finish the play off. He quit on the route or didn't go all out to get to a ball.
Mahomes seems somewhat patient when it comes to mental errors (he didn't react when he threw that pick against SF when Moore clearly blew the route). He seems to understand that this is a process.
But if he's getting frustrated with a player on the field, it's probably because he doesn't think that player finished the play off. Then when you see Moore jake a downfield block and notice the contrast in how he speaks of Toney (or even Watson) vs. Moore - well, some pieces start to fall into place. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
He gets openly frustrated by 'effort' mistakes more than anything.
Think of the times he's really gotten on Hardman in the past and again on Moore this season - they're plays where the guy didn't finish the play off. He quit on the route or didn't go all out to get to a ball.
Mahomes seems somewhat patient when it comes to mental errors (he didn't react when he threw that pick against SF when Moore clearly blew the route). He seems to understand that this is a process.
But if he's getting frustrated with a player on the field, it's probably because he doesn't think that player finished the play off. Then when you see Moore jake a downfield block and notice the contrast in how he speaks of Toney (or even Watson) vs. Moore - well, some pieces start to fall into place.
I keep harping on this but that was the play that really turned me off. I can live with mistakes if the effort is there. Not giving the proper effort when the ball is not in your hands is almost unforgivable. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Virtually every play you can take any given WR and find a time that he's "wide open". That doesn't mean he's where he's supposed to be when he's supposed to be there. Moreover, it doesn't mean it wasn't a designed clear out or that he was a primary option on the play.
In the grand scheme of things...it doesn't mean much.
What we know is that Andy Reid is one of the most gifted offensive minds the league has ever seen. We also know that Patrick Mahomes is maybe the most dynamic and effective QB the league has ever seen.
And NEITHER of these guys seem compelled to get the football to Skyy Moore. Meanwhile Kadarius Toney came in and 2 weeks later was getting looks.
That's a hell of a lot more demonstrative of what's happening out there than a screen capture of an 'open' player.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Virtually every play you can take any given WR and find a time that he's "wide open". That doesn't mean he's where he's supposed to be when he's supposed to be there. Moreover, it doesn't mean it wasn't a designed clear out or that he was a primary option on the play.
In the grand scheme of things...it doesn't mean much.
What we know is that Andy Reid is one of the most gifted offensive minds the league has ever seen. We also know that Patrick Mahomes is maybe the most dynamic and effective QB the league has ever seen.
And NEITHER of these guys seem compelled to get the football to Skyy Moore. Meanwhile Kadarius Toney came in and 2 weeks later was getting looks.
That's a hell of a lot more demonstrative of what's happening out there than a screen capture of an 'open' player.
I don't even think he's "peeling" open on that play either. #23 is covering that zone he's in and only leaves when the pass is thrown to go make the tackle. And Skyy was about to run right into another players zone so he would have been open for all of 0.5 seconds even if Mahomes didn't throw it when he did. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Evidently he isn't Toney or even Justin Watson either.
Everything is relative and relative to a brand new player and a complete JAG, Skyy Moore has been an afterthought in this offense.
Comparing Toney and Skyy is odd. It’s literally apples to oranges.
Toney was an All SEC top 20 drafted talent. He was expected to be a #1 caliber WR. And here he will have every chance to be what Tyreek Hill was for us.
Skyy was never projected by anyone to be a #1 WR. He was always projected to be a quality starting WR, but not Toney.
And yes he is getting open. The reverse play was a specific play design for Toney. Even though Skyy was wide open 15 yards downfield Patrick threw it 3 yards quickly to Toney.
Toney is obviously more talented than Skyy. And he’s gonna get even better.
Skyy needs more experience just like…a lot of rookies. Getting upset that he isn’t setting the world on fire is bizarre especially when the offense looks great. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Comparing Toney and Skyy is odd. It’s literally apples to oranges.
Toney was an All SEC top 20 drafted talent. He was expected to be a #1 caliber WR. And here he will have every chance to be what Tyreek Hill was for us.
Skyy was never projected by anyone to be a #1 WR. He was always projected to be a quality starting WR, but not Toney.
And yes he is getting open. The reverse play was a specific play design for Toney. Even though Skyy was wide open 15 yards downfield Patrick threw it 3 yards quickly to Toney.
Toney is obviously more talented than Skyy. And he’s gonna get even better.
Skyy needs more experience just like…a lot of rookies. Getting upset that he isn’t setting the world on fire is bizarre especially when the offense looks great.
I can't speak for anyone else but I don't think anyone expects him to set the world on fire. Just be where you're supposed to be and give the effort you're supposed to give. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Comparing Toney and Skyy is odd. It’s literally apples to oranges.
Toney was an All SEC top 20 drafted talent. He was expected to be a #1 caliber WR. And here he will have every chance to be what Tyreek Hill was for us.
Skyy was never projected by anyone to be a #1 WR. He was always projected to be a quality starting WR, but not Toney.
And yes he is getting open. The reverse play was a specific play design for Toney. Even though Skyy was wide open 15 yards downfield Patrick threw it 3 yards quickly to Toney.
Toney is obviously more talented than Skyy. And he’s gonna get even better.
Skyy needs more experience just like…a lot of rookies. Getting upset that he isn’t setting the world on fire is bizarre especially when the offense looks great.
Gotta love these fading expectation arguments.
We went from "our new Wes Welker" to "Andy's offense is too hard" to "well Toney is actually talented so it's different ok". [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Comparing Toney and Skyy is odd. It’s literally apples to oranges.
Toney was an All SEC top 20 drafted talent. He was expected to be a #1 caliber WR. And here he will have every chance to be what Tyreek Hill was for us.
Skyy was never projected by anyone to be a #1 WR. He was always projected to be a quality starting WR, but not Toney.
And yes he is getting open. The reverse play was a specific play design for Toney. Even though Skyy was wide open 15 yards downfield Patrick threw it 3 yards quickly to Toney.
Toney is obviously more talented than Skyy. And he’s gonna get even better.
Skyy needs more experience just like…a lot of rookies. Getting upset that he isn’t setting the world on fire is bizarre especially when the offense looks great.
My dude - we have Antonio Brown comparisons in this very thread. There are people trying to say he has HoF talent.
Meanwhile the 'haters' compared him to Sterling Shepard and are now being accused of 'being upset' when the guy can barely play 15 snaps without messing up.
And we have people pointing to designed clear-outs as proof he's "Getting open" as though that means anything.
I mean c'mon. There's one side that's been unreasonable throughout this process - it ain't mine. [Reply]
"Guys, he played in the MAC - he's not used to these defensive concepts and the speed of the game. Why do you have such unreasonable expectations of him!!"
{ahem}
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I think that's pretty fair as well. I think Shepard came to the league more pro-ready, but I don't think that's Moore's fault. He just didn't play teams that would throw much at them defensively so he never really got a feel for playing against disguised looks, zones, etc....
Shepard was by no means an expert, but he was more advanced in that regard than Moore will be, IMO.
And really, Shepards numbers aren't far at all from what I said would be a reasonable expectation for Moore's 1st year results. I could see Moore having a very similar role as well.
None of this is new. None of these points are novel or anything that wasn't considered by some of us months ago.
And none of them even begin to undercut the original argument which is that Skyy Moore, while not a bad developmental player, was not a 2nd round caliber prospect.
"Well Kadarius Toney is actually talented" isn't the own you think it is, fellas.
And when even my 'hater' expectations were clearly FAR too high...well I guess it's my own fault for expecting he'd be able to hold off premium talents like Justin Watson to maintain his spot in the pecking order. Oops - my bad. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Who said he was Wes Welker? :-)
You sure you wanna ride this train?
Originally Posted by BossChief:
I watched and read a lot about Skyy leading up to the draft and think his best comp (in my view) is Wes Welker.
Best in slot but can play outside.
Can return punts and kickoffs (Veach said this would be part of his initial role in KC)
Elite quicks
Elite acceleration
Smaller in stature
Not a deep threat, but has the speed to be.
Very reliable hands
Good vision on adjustable routes
Smart
