You can't point to anything that separates Mitchell from anyone in this class. He wasn't overly productive. He doesn't run great routes. He plays slow but runs fast in shorts. He didn't show strength in coverage. He never had to face a #1 CB. He never had to deal with much press. He didn't see much over-the-top coverage. He didn't get much zone LB attention because of Sanders. I mean the list goes on and fucking on with things against him and very little except size, good hands, and the Olympics going for him. That's great.
So you have my gut feeling guy now too. Impressive analysis? You betchya. My boy runs a 4.45 at 6'0" 195 and has great hands. You're welcome.
Now if you want, you can point me to something of substance that indicates why, precisely, your boy is worthy of a 1st round pick. Hell, make a good point he should be a top 48 pick. That means he has to go higher than George Pickens did. "This dude's an Alpha" just doesn't quite do it for me. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Ok, I'm gonna drive a stake in the ground with you and call this argument a day...
If my top 6 WRs were off the board and it was between Kamari Lassiter at CB and Mitchell at WR I'd take Lassiter 10/10 times. I Franklin was there too, I'd probably flip a coin between Lassiter and Franklin and I'm kinda starting to lean Lassiter there too. Maybe because I think that much of Lassiter and maybe Lassiter will rise, he certainly could.
And you know who I think could very well end up better than both of Franklin and Mitchell if his head is actually on straight? Jermaine Burton.
He can get off press, he's got good hands, he can track the deep ball. Crispen those routes and you have a really good player with enough there to think he could become a Stefon Diggs, Reggie Wayne, Laveranues Coles, Jeremy Maclin, Torry Holt etc. My only question about Burton is between his ears and it just might be he's a bit of a show-off.
Kelce has always been a bit of a show-off. Tyreek was too. If he's great, I can deal with a bit of that.
I'd actually forgot about Burton. I really liked him when he was playing. I still see him talked about as a top 64 guy but I'm not sure. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
You don't think I'm being fair now?
You can't point to anything that separates Mitchell from anyone in this class. He wasn't overly productive. He doesn't run great routes. He plays slow but runs fast in shorts. He didn't show strength in coverage. He never had to face a #1 CB. He never had to deal with much press. He didn't see much over-the-top coverage. He didn't get much zone LB attention because of Sanders. I mean the list goes on and ****ing on with things against him and very little except size, good hands, and the Olympics going for him. That's great.
So you have my gut feeling guy now too. Impressive analysis? You betchya. My boy runs a 4.45 at 6'0" 195 and has great hands. You're welcome.
Now if you want, you can point me to something of substance that indicates why, precisely, your boy is worthy of a 1st round pick. Hell, make a good point he should be a top 48 pick. That means he has to go higher than George Pickens did. "This dude's an Alpha" just doesn't quite do it for me.
Your views on Mitchell are way stranger than mine.
You won’t listen to reason here. Your mind was made up and there’s nothing I can do if you think little Worthy is a better football player when Cosell of NFL films and a guy who ran an NFL team and talks to current scouts are not seeing what you are seeing. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
We need a dangerous slot and a move Z. And for those guys, you need guys that can run all day long because that's how Andy Reid uses them.
Are there things I don't like about Franklin, Worthy, McConkey, and Wilson? Abso****inglutely. But I like their type for what we need and the offense we run alot more than some of these other fringe guys like Coleman, Mitchell, and Corley. Give me the guys that can run the yard at 100% the entire game.
I don’t disagree with the need you’ve described but I could see us going in a variety of ways to make this work. We need a field stretcher but I don’t know that we need to spend a high pick on that position if they have holes in their game. I agree with some of the concerns with Franklin. And he’s the field stretcher, MVS replacement, that we all covet that can stretch the field. We all want that but Franklin has had the benefit of that college scheme. His build up speed problems and his problems with hands were limited in the system. I’m not sure how well his game translates to the pro game. There are other ways to meet those needs as you’ve described. We need a deep threat but that doesn’t mean that we couldn’t employ a big slot. I loved watching Larry Fitzgerald playing in the slot and I could see Coleman being a player like that. We could go later in the draft for our field stretcher or via free agency. I’m not forcing myself to pick for that need. Let’s just pick players that we can project their success in our system. Use free agency for a deep threat if we don’t project their success. That’s what we did with MVS. We just missed on the signing. [Reply]
Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks:
Couple quick post-combine addendums to earlier posts I made:
It's always been my opinion the gauntlet drill translates pretty well to what you can expect these guys to turn out to be. The gauntlet doesn't show you much in terms of quickness/route running, but in my opinion it gives you a good idea who can catch, and who can catch at game speed. It's one of the reasons I wasn't as high as others on Jalin Hyatt last year.
My opinion of Keon Coleman has changed. I thought he killed the gauntlet drill, so his stock has gone up for me. I wasn't sure he had quickness and speed to separate and I questioned why FSU used him on punt returns. There's a difference between game speed and track speed. You're not catching a football running track. The way Coleman didn't slow down to catch those passes and how confidently he caught them with his hands really impressed me. He's a natural hands-catcher with great size and good game speed. He also showed better quickness than I expected in some of the other drills. We could do worse at pick 32 than this guy and since watching him at the combine, I wouldn't be at all disappointed if we picked him.
My reservations regarding Troy Franklin were exacerbated after watching his gauntlet and a few other drills. His 40 went as I expected, maybe even better. But he just doesn't seem like a natural hands-catcher to me. He weaved and he slowed down quite a bit in the gauntlet. Some of the other drills had me questioning his ability to fight through press coverage, run quick routes, and catch the football. He lost his balance in a lot of drills, seems like he'd be easy to jam. He has great speed, but I didn't see the quickness that you need to run crisp routes. And he just doesn't seem like a natural, confident catcher of the football to me. He's the kind of guy who could have a few drops early in his career that mess with his mind. Just my opinion and I could be wrong, I know a lot of you guys who I respect like him.
Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks:
Couple quick post-combine addendums to earlier posts I made:
It's always been my opinion the gauntlet drill translates pretty well to what you can expect these guys to turn out to be. The gauntlet doesn't show you much in terms of quickness/route running, but in my opinion it gives you a good idea who can catch, and who can catch at game speed. It's one of the reasons I wasn't as high as others on Jalin Hyatt last year.
My opinion of Keon Coleman has changed. I thought he killed the gauntlet drill, so his stock has gone up for me. I wasn't sure he had quickness and speed to separate and I questioned why FSU used him on punt returns. There's a difference between game speed and track speed. You're not catching a football running track. The way Coleman didn't slow down to catch those passes and how confidently he caught them with his hands really impressed me. He's a natural hands-catcher with great size and good game speed. He also showed better quickness than I expected in some of the other drills. We could do worse at pick 32 than this guy and since watching him at the combine, I wouldn't be at all disappointed if we picked him.
My reservations regarding Troy Franklin were exacerbated after watching his gauntlet and a few other drills. His 40 went as I expected, maybe even better. But he just doesn't seem like a natural hands-catcher to me. He weaved and he slowed down quite a bit in the gauntlet. Some of the other drills had me questioning his ability to fight through press coverage, run quick routes, and catch the football. He lost his balance in a lot of drills, seems like he'd be easy to jam. He has great speed, but I didn't see the quickness that you need to run crisp routes. And he just doesn't seem like a natural, confident catcher of the football to me. He's the kind of guy who could have a few drops early in his career that mess with his mind. Just my opinion and I could be wrong, I know a lot of you guys who I respect like him.
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
Your views on Mitchell are way stranger than mine.
You won’t listen to reason here. Your mind was made up and there’s nothing I can do if you think little Worthy is a better football player when Cosell of NFL films and a guy who ran an NFL team and talks to current scouts are not seeing what you are seeing.
Which player is usually the better player on any team, the one that gets more targets and produces more or the one that gets less?
Who normally gets drafted higher?
Even in your fabled stroke of genius, Campbell was drafted 2 rounds higher than McLaurin.
Circumstances aligning perfectly is a rarity, not a regularity. [Reply]
I’m starting to fall in love with Coleman at 50ish if we can get that pick for sneed. Let’s find our deep threat later in the draft or via free agency, maybe both? I feel like Coleman’s actual game speed is better than his combine numbers. And he can catch and his radius is great plus the one handed catches get me real excited with Mahomes.
Keon Coleman, Florida State (6-foot-3 1⁄4, 213 pounds)
The former Michigan State product may have turned some fans away with his 4.61 40-yard dash—the second slowest time of the wide receiver group—but for a team like the Lions that value GPS timing over the 40, Coleman is still likely high atop their wide receiver rankings.
As the NFL Network broadcast brought up several times, NFL Rookie of the Year candidate Puka Nacua (4.57 40-yard dash) ran the fastest time in the “gauntlet drill” last year (20.06 MPH), illustrating how his GPS speed translates more than straight-line speed.
This year, Coleman took home the honor of the fastest gauntlet time (20.36 MPH), the second fastest “go route” time (21.71 MPH)—behind only Thomas—as well as landing in the top four of several other categories Next Gen Stats GPS tracks.
Coleman’s game film points to his route precision needing to be cleaned up, but in on-field drills, you could tell he is working on that part of his game. While going full speed through the routes, Coleman stayed on course and covered ground very quickly. He got low into his breaks and showed explosion getting out of them. His length showed up in his stride and catching radius, and his hands looked very solid on the day as a whole. [Reply]
