I think we can all agree the offense has not been up to par this season.
At this point, there's only so much we can do about it. Our best WR got injured and is missing the season, our best RB is out until December, our LT situation is messy and our stud TE is looking his age.
So, is this who we are now? Is 30 points a game a distant memory?
What can be done?
(Andy Reid is lurking in this thread, so make sure you're on your best behavior.) [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Took a look at the playcall and idk what you guys want here. Watson is open and Mahomes stared down Rice. Kid needs to read his progressions. DB in front of Watson has his back to him and closing on Rice. All-22 will be interesting.
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Took a look at the playcall and idk what you guys want here. Watson is open and Mahomes stared down Rice. Kid needs to read his progressions. DB in front of Watson has his back to him and closing on Rice. All-22 will be interesting.
#3 is also tracking Mahomes and if Pat flips his shoulders, he'll sink, to say nothing of 20.
There's not really an opening there. It's not designed to have one, IMO. That's a run-off designed to get the MLB to drop deeper into coverage and open the middle screen to Kelce.
That was a one-route play, IMO. Everything else is designed to make space for Kelce and it didn't work. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mecca:
I'm pretty sure you could put Saquon on the Chiefs and have him go 24-157 and they'd still refuse to come out of the shell.
And they shouldn't.
As good as 24/157 is, it would be a positively pedestrian day for Mahomes. ESPECIALLY when you drop out of the shell and he gashes you for 9-10 yards/attempt.
The answer isn't the running game. Not for this team. [Reply]
Because again - bad passing teams throw for 5 YPA.
Great running teams struggle to run for 5 YPC.
The difference in efficiency couldn't be more stark. And sure, sometimes on offense when you can't get yourself into gear, you have to trade efficiency for simply moving the damn ball.
But on defense that's NEVER a trade you should be willing to make. You always focus on preventing offensive efficiency.
There's simply no reason to come out of that shell until teams can get the protections they need to really attack it. It's really about getting the time in the pocket you need as a passer to find the guys as they get into/across these soft spots in the zone.
It's beatable. But I think we're seeing the short practice stuff really come into play with teams that just don't have cohesive OLs and so they can't find the time to actually attack these shell defenses in the air.
And that's how you do it. You don't beat them at 4 yards/carry. You beat them at 9 yards/attempt by hitting them with short catch/run plays and intermediate shots in the zones.
The Chiefs, with Patrick Mahomes under center, will never ever EVER cajole teams into abandoning the 2-high concept with the running game. Because no matter how well they run the football (within reason) it's never going to be scarier or more efficient than Patrick Mahomes passing it.
And if it is, it's because you're passing like shit. Not because you're running extremely well. Last night our passing game was pretty awful and it went for 5.5 yards/attempt. Running game went for 3.9.
By any 'lay' opinion, our running game worked better than our passing game yesterday. And it was still nearly 50% less efficient than our passing game.
We're never going to run ourselves into single high looks, fellas.
That’s been the theme here. Lou Anorumo has put the base defense against us on film. It’s basically a variation of cover 2 in nickel defense while switching to cover 3/4 on key passing downs.
The crossers aren’t there bc they’re putting 1 more DB in for a LB and backing the backers and corners up about 10 yards off the LOS. The deep ball isn’t working bc the safeties are halving the field deep.
They’re begging us to run the ball and throw short. Basically handing it to us and they don’t give a shit. We did well moving the ball down the field this way but continually fuck ourselves in the red zone or short yardage.
But again Mahomes put a tiny bit more air on that pick, it’s 29 points. They’re making us really work for points. They want us running 10+ plays each drive. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I think we can all agree the offense has not been up to par this season.
At this point, there's only so much we can do about it. Our best WR got injured and is missing the season, our best RB is out until December, our LT situation is messy and our stud TE is looking his age.
So, is this who we are now? Is 30 points a game a distant memory?
What can be done?
(Andy Reid is lurking in this thread, so make sure you're on your best behavior.)
I'm ready to do my part and provide fresh high quality H2O. That way the current waterboy can step up and provide relief to the towel boy and on up the line. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mecca:
Defense in the NFL is dictating what's happening, are you not watching other games also?
Two things. Rightfully so, Mahomes/Reid is graded against the curve. Also, he is 20th in ypa. Very similar to last year both in ypa and rank. Both a full yard lower than 2022. This isn’t a new issue. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch:
He quite literally has. Average depth of target plummeted the second Nagy took back over as OC. Tied for last a season ago with gimpy Joe Burrow and is significantly lower than that standard currently. Not league average. Not even significantly below league average. Dead. ****ing. Last.
Teams are playing nickel cover 2 and basically dropping 5 DB’s and 2 athletic backers 10+ yards downfield.
You want them to throw deep when they are dropping 7 defenders that deep?
If doing what we are doing isn’t working, then what do you recommend they do?
:-) I genuinely cannot believe folks are so desperate to simp for Nagy that they're acting like dropping 7 into coverage with double high safeties is a revolutionary concept. It's modernized Tampa Two, a defense that's been a thing for literal decades. [Reply]
But yeah, let's just throw horizontal passes 20+ times a game, flame out in the Red Zone, and rely on the opponent fucking things up and defensive heroics to win while we have one of the greatest QB talents to ever play behind center. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch: :-) I genuinely cannot believe folks are so desperate to simp for Nagy that they're acting like dropping 7 into coverage with double high safeties is a revolutionary concept. It's modernized Tampa Two, a defense that's been a thing for literal decades.
Theoretically speaking it shouldn't be hard to beat. It however does highlight a lot of the problems with today's NFL though. It highlights how reliant offenses are on quick game concepts, slants, crosses etc. It also highlights how very few offensive lines are actually capable of holding up long enough for a QB to throw a skinny post or something on that level. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch:
But yeah, let's just throw horizontal passes 20+ times a game, flame out in the Red Zone, and rely on the opponent fucking things up and defensive heroics to win while we have one of the greatest QB talents to ever play behind center.
Needed Hollywood to do what you're wanting to do.
Yes, you can get vertical on a Cover 2. But you need your OTs to stand up AND you need 2 vertical weapons to stress both halves of the Cover 2 shell.
If you don't, you're gonna struggle vertically against it.
In Worthy we have one who we appear to kinda sorta maybe trust and in Rice we appear to be trying to develop one.
But Hollywood was a pretty significant part of creating a downfield attack against that 2-high shell. And when Kingsley shit the bed against Hendrickson, it created an even bigger headache for that approach.
This isn't a bombs away personnel group right now. Maybe it gets there - but you wanna win while you're getting that done. And right now this is how we're gonna have to win - deliberate, oftentimes hideous, offense.
Now, none of that really explains the red zone struggles. But again, that's not new to Nagy. Our red zone efficiency has been scattershot for a decade. And statistically most teams show no year over year red zone efficiency. It seems more and more to be kinda random and it equalizes over a long enough timeline.
Hopefully we get some positive regression here soon enough. [Reply]
