Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I went from being largely ambivalent about the BBWAA to openly hating them when that happened.
Edmonds isn't an inner-circle HoFer -- he didn't break out until a little later in his career and injuries prevented the finishing kick he needed for that sort of thing. But he should've had that sort of Larry Walker slow build that eventually got him in there.
And I hate hate hate that so many in the BBWAA hold CFers to the same offensive standards as corner OFers and 1b. It's just ridiculous to me.
Edmonds is a HoFer in my book.
You can't hate the BBWAA enough. Biggest cock suckers in sports. [Reply]
And I hate hate hate that so many in the BBWAA hold CFers to the same offensive standards as corner OFers and 1b. It's just ridiculous to me.
Andruw Jones is a prime example of that on the present day ballot.
I think the Veterans Committee/Eras Committee will eventually relook at Edmonds' case, but he's not a priority. They tend to give guys like Fred McGriff (39.8% on his last ballot) the first look and that's where the 2.5% hurts Edmonds. I could see Jeff Kent getting a look before Edmonds because he got 46.5% on his last BBWAA ballot.
Ted Simmons is reason to believe Edmonds has a chance. Simmons dropped off with 3.7% of the vote on the 1994 BBWAA ballot and got elected 26 years later by the Veterans Committee in 2020. [Reply]
And either McGriff or Kent ahead of Edmonds is asinine.
if you're a roughly similar offensive player who plays (at best) a mediocre 1b, that's just nowhere close to as valuable as a guy who plays CF at even an average level.
And set aside if you think Edmonds is a truly elite CFer for a moment, he was most assuredly good.
It's why I also didn't like the folks that killed Piazza for not being an elite C. Who gives a shit? Guy played C and hit like a 1b, which then opens up 1b for ANOTHER guy who hits like a 1b and thus has a cumulative impact on your offense as a whole.
Moreover, Piazza's defensive shortcomings were overstated because he wasn't good at controlling the running game. He was actually a pretty solid pure receiver back there.
I just don't understand how Baseball Writers can do this for a living and have such an insanely shallow understanding of the game. [Reply]
If those guys had retired at 31 due to injury, they'd have made the hall (i.e. Kirby Puckett) but because they stuck around and didn't perform over the latter 1/3 of their careers, they didn't make it in.
Which is ridiculous. Either vote them in on their peak or don't. Don't speculate as to what that peak may have been for some guys and then punish others for not playing at that hypothetical level. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
And either McGriff or Kent ahead of Edmonds is asinine.
if you're a roughly similar offensive player who plays (at best) a mediocre 1b, that's just nowhere close to as valuable as a guy who plays CF at even an average level.
And set aside if you think Edmonds is a truly elite CFer for a moment, he was most assuredly good.
It's why I also didn't like the folks that killed Piazza for not being an elite C. Who gives a shit? Guy played C and hit like a 1b, which then opens up 1b for ANOTHER guy who hits like a 1b and thus has a cumulative impact on your offense as a whole.
Moreover, Piazza's defensive shortcomings were overstated because he wasn't good at controlling the running game. He was actually a pretty solid pure receiver back there.
I just don't understand how Baseball Writers can do this for a living and have such an insanely shallow understanding of the game.
There really is no consistency and way too much focus on one way offensive players. Then you have a guy like Omar vizquel who was nowhere near a HOF hitter and was also a piece of shit. I’m all for defensive specialists getting in but not when you have legit 2 way players getting snubbed. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
And Andrew Jones is a victim of recency bias.
Same thing happened to Dale Murphy.
If those guys had retired at 31 due to injury, they'd have made the hall (i.e. Kirby Puckett) but because they stuck around and didn't perform over the latter 1/3 of their careers, they didn't make it in.
Which is ridiculous. Either vote them in on their peak or don't. Don't speculate as to what that peak may have been for some guys and then punish others for not playing at that hypothetical level.
Recency bias is why Tim Raines got in on his last try even though he had a career .385 OBP. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
There really is no consistency and way too much focus on one way offensive players. Then you have a guy like Omar vizquel who was nowhere near a HOF hitter and was also a piece of shit. I’m all for defensive specialists getting in but not when you have legit 2 way players getting snubbed.
Vizquel was probably going to get in as he peaked at 52.6% before the bad news came out about him in regards to domestic violence.
I probably wouldn't have voted for him, but I did like the fact that he played for 24 seasons. That's just mind boggling to me that a guy can make 24 big league rosters, a quarter of a century of teams at this level of play. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
The BBHOF ceased being at all relevant when Bonds and Clemens weren't allowed in and David Ortiz was.
I don’t know if there is ever a person who got more of a free pass than papi. Between the Red Sox biased steroid investigations to all the temper tantrums that the media tried to portray as cute. And like so many examples, just the unfortunate era where one way players were glorified [Reply]
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry:
When the cocksuckers and their little dick ego can't even vote sure ballot Hall of Famers in at 100%. Fuck them
Until a failed starter came along.
The fact that a fucking reliever was the first 100% in HoF history is just more absurdity from these guys.
Not Hank Aaron or Willie Mays or Ted Williams or Babe Ruth or Stan Musial or shit, Ricky Henderson. Not Walter Johnson or Tom Seaver or Greg Maddux or Randy Johnson or Nolan Ryan.
A guy who failed (badly) as a starter and didn't make a meaningful impact until he was 26 years old.
THAT was their first guy to be unanimously selected.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Until a failed starter came along.
The fact that a ****ing reliever was the first 100% in HoF history is just more absurdity from these guys.
Not Hank Aaron or Willie Mays or Ted Williams or Babe Ruth or Stan Musial or shit, Ricky Henderson. Not Walter Johnson or Tom Seaver or Greg Maddux or Randy Johnson or Nolan Ryan.
A guy who failed (badly) as a starter and didn't make a meaningful impact until he was 26 years old.
THAT was their first guy to be unanimously selected.
The BBWAA is just full of dickholes.
It's really crazy when you think about it even though Mariano Rivera was considered the best reliever ever and had a sterling reputation as a professional.
Sean Forman, of Baseball Reference, is a smart guy with a HOF vote and hasn't voted for Billy Wagner because he's a reliever.
Even the modern day voters give no consideration to relievers for the Cy Young Award (and rightfully so) after Mike Marshall, Willie Hernandez, Steve Bedrosian, Mark Davis, Dennis Ecklersley, Eric Gagne used to win the award and Hernandez and Eck got MVPs similar to Washington Redskins kicker Mark Moseley winning the NFL MVP. [Reply]
Read and heard about several stories after the Brewers got knocked out the other night. Uecker apparently spent considerable time after the game in the Brewers clubhouse going around to all the players. Lot of tears from what I've heard. Hopefully there's nothing wrong with Bob, though the man is 90 years old. But it's really looking like we might have heard the last of Ueck calling games for Milwaukee. Everybody's gotta hang it up sometime, but he's gonna be sorely, sorely missed. Such an amazing sense of humor, timing, and really knows baseball and how to call a game. Dude is an absolute insitution in Milwaukee, and it's a real shame that team just never quite got it together to ever get a World Series while he was there.
And sorry for using the past tense for Bob. Nothing's been announced yet, and I wouldn't expect anything until after the World Series, but from everything I heard and read about after the game, it sure looks like he's done. If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to be wrong. The game is better with Bob in it. [Reply]
