Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy! [Reply]
Originally Posted by rico:
But-but that's not possible!!! Mahomes and Webb played in air raid systems...there's no way they lead the way in velocity over those other NFL prospects!!! Too bad they played in those air raid systems!!! Now they'll never be able to put those big arms to use!!! Because of the air raid!!!
60 MPH...very impressive...how does it compare to other QB's already in the league?
Found this:
Originally Posted by :
According to a May 2014 article from popular sports blog “For The Win,” former Virginia Tech QB Logan Thomas set a velocity record when he threw a 60 mph pass at the NFL combine. It was the highest recorded speed in the seven years since the league began tracking the velocity of its QB hopefuls.
Thomas became the first player to crack the 60 mph barrier and established a new record by edging out the previous mark of 59 mph set by Colin Kaepernick in 2011.
Although you didn’t ask this in your question, I decided to see how success between the speed of a QB’s pass correlated to success on the field. And, as a point of reference decided to include the same “study” - if you will - on the effectiveness of a MLB pitcher in regards to the speed of their pitches.
As expected, the speed at which at QB throws has very little to do with his overall success. Whereas in baseball, it weighs much heavier.
In a strict comparison of the two, a baseball travels much faster than a football. Obviously. Which is one reason speed is not nearly the commodity in football that it is in baseball. A sport where it’s coveted. Of course, the football is an oblong object nearly a foot in length. Meanwhile, a baseball fits comfortably in the palm of one’s hand. A baseball is “built for speed.” A football is not.
Don’t misunderstand what I’m saying. I’m not saying “speed” isn’t an important quality for a QB to possess. It is important. However, it’s a small portion of a greater whole in terms of what it takes, physically, to be a successful QB.
Jeff George, a rocket armed QB from Illinois took the college football world by storm with his dazzling passes and big play ability. There wasn’t a throw George couldn’t make and a deep ball he couldn’t hit. And while he spent nearly 15 years in the league he never broached the considerable expectations placed upon him coming out of college. Because while he maintained one of the strongest arms the league has ever seen, the fact he could throw hard mattered little as he floundered from one team to the next.
I think one reason for this is these guys with strong arms are so used to getting by on that arm as their coming up through the ranks they become more reliant on their rocket launchers and less susceptible to coaching and teaching. They foster a belief that arm will bail them out of any and all situations. It’s a false sense of security.
Greg Gabriel: Is a quarterback's velocity an indicator of how good he will be in the NFL?
The Bears' former director of college scouting, Greg Gabriel has over 30 years of experience in NFL scouting and he'll be breaking down the top NFL prospects to watch this college season and other NFL news each week here at Pro Football Weekly. You can follow Greg on Twitter @greggabe
On recent days there has been a lot of chatter on Twitter about the throwing velocity of the quarterbacks at the annual Scouting Combine. What velocity measures is how fast the ball is moving once thrown. In other words, miles per hour.
Some of the results from the Combine were as follows:
Patrick Mahomes: 60 mph, Davis Webb: 59 mph, DeShone Kizer: 56 mph, Mitch Trubisky and Jerod Evans: 55 mph, Nate Peterman and Brad Kaaya: 53 mph and Deshaun Watson: 49 mph.
After these results were tweeted out, there were a number of other tweets saying things such as, “The minimal number a QB can have is 55" or, "Anyone with less than 55 will struggle to play in the NFL,” etc.
I found these tweets amusing, as the people who were posting these things don’t have any idea of what they are talking about. Why? The “velocity” stat has only been used for a few years and there is not nearly enough evidence to tell us a thing other than the miles per hour a quarterback's throw is traveling.
Ten years from now there may be some evidence, but today there is nothing. In fact when I asked some GMs and coaches around the league that I know about the stat they all agreed it was meaningless at this time as far as predicting anything. Again, not enough data.
Most if not all of the top quarterbacks in the league never had their velocity measured at the Combine. I guarantee you that some of the greatest of all-time would have “flunked’ the velocity test. Coming out of college Peyton Manning had a good, but not a great arm. Tom Brady actually had a bit less than a good arm and Drew Brees' arm strength coming out was below average at best.
How did we know this? We watched practice live and a lot of game tape. I was at a Purdue practice during Brees' final year and he struggled to complete a 12-yard out in windy conditions. I was at Peyton Manning’s Pro Day and in a scripted workout he showed far less than a cannon. One of the knocks on Brady coming out was he couldn’t “drive” the ball.
After each of these quarterbacks spent some time in the National Football League, their arm strength improved. In fact, not only did it improve, but it improved dramatically.
In many college programs, the quarterback is not forced to do much in the weight room. Once they get to the NFL, things change. If you want to keep your job and be able to compete, you have to do everything you can to improve. There are numerous exercises quarterbacks can do to improve their arm strength. These players look to improve grip strength, forearm strength and triceps strength. Improving those areas will improve the zip a quarterback has on the ball.
Yes, coaches and evaluators want a quarterback to have a strong arm, but they also want the player to throw a tight ball. In fact many believe “spin” is more important than outright arm strength. A strong-armed quarterback who doesn’t throw a tight ball will struggle in the wind. Likewise, a quarterback with an average arm can have success in the wind or cold if he can spin the ball properly.
Originally Posted by KChiefs1:
Greg Gabriel: Is a quarterback's velocity an indicator of how good he will be in the NFL?
The Bears' former director of college scouting, Greg Gabriel has over 30 years of experience in NFL scouting and he'll be breaking down the top NFL prospects to watch this college season and other NFL news each week here at Pro Football Weekly. You can follow Greg on Twitter @greggabe
On recent days there has been a lot of chatter on Twitter about the throwing velocity of the quarterbacks at the annual Scouting Combine. What velocity measures is how fast the ball is moving once thrown. In other words, miles per hour.
Some of the results from the Combine were as follows:
Patrick Mahomes: 60 mph, Davis Webb: 59 mph, DeShone Kizer: 56 mph, Mitch Trubisky and Jerod Evans: 55 mph, Nate Peterman and Brad Kaaya: 53 mph and Deshaun Watson: 49 mph.
After these results were tweeted out, there were a number of other tweets saying things such as, “The minimal number a QB can have is 55" or, "Anyone with less than 55 will struggle to play in the NFL,” etc.
I found these tweets amusing, as the people who were posting these things don’t have any idea of what they are talking about. Why? The “velocity” stat has only been used for a few years and there is not nearly enough evidence to tell us a thing other than the miles per hour a quarterback's throw is traveling.
Ten years from now there may be some evidence, but today there is nothing. In fact when I asked some GMs and coaches around the league that I know about the stat they all agreed it was meaningless at this time as far as predicting anything. Again, not enough data.
Most if not all of the top quarterbacks in the league never had their velocity measured at the Combine. I guarantee you that some of the greatest of all-time would have “flunked’ the velocity test. Coming out of college Peyton Manning had a good, but not a great arm. Tom Brady actually had a bit less than a good arm and Drew Brees' arm strength coming out was below average at best.
How did we know this? We watched practice live and a lot of game tape. I was at a Purdue practice during Brees' final year and he struggled to complete a 12-yard out in windy conditions. I was at Peyton Manning’s Pro Day and in a scripted workout he showed far less than a cannon. One of the knocks on Brady coming out was he couldn’t “drive” the ball.
After each of these quarterbacks spent some time in the National Football League, their arm strength improved. In fact, not only did it improve, but it improved dramatically.
In many college programs, the quarterback is not forced to do much in the weight room. Once they get to the NFL, things change. If you want to keep your job and be able to compete, you have to do everything you can to improve. There are numerous exercises quarterbacks can do to improve their arm strength. These players look to improve grip strength, forearm strength and triceps strength. Improving those areas will improve the zip a quarterback has on the ball.
Yes, coaches and evaluators want a quarterback to have a strong arm, but they also want the player to throw a tight ball. In fact many believe “spin” is more important than outright arm strength. A strong-armed quarterback who doesn’t throw a tight ball will struggle in the wind. Likewise, a quarterback with an average arm can have success in the wind or cold if he can spin the ball properly.
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Okay, thanks, Mr. Gabriel.
So we're back again to this bullshit of, "Deshaun Watson will be fine because Drew Brees doesn't have a rocket arm..."
If you throw with less velocity, you've simply GOT to make up for it in other areas. You have to be far more precise with timing and anticipation. You have to be account for the windows you're throwing into being a lot smaller and more quick to close. And most importantly, your throws have got to be on the money fucking accurate. It's gotta operate like a fucking clock.
Yes, strong armed QBs have to do all that stuff, too, but they can get away with a lot more. In the 5% of times when perhaps they're not quite on the money or they have things mistimed, they're at least going to be far less likely to be picked or have the play disrupted.
Deshaun Watson with his current velocity and the accuracy I saw out of him in college is NOT Drew Brees. Not. Even. Fucking. Close. Watson's accuracy is pretty good on short-mid throws and even some long ones, but he's always good for a few throws that are just fucking not even goddamn close. And even his throw-to-throw accuracy is just good... it's not deadly good. It's not Drew Brees good.
Greg Gabriel knows more about scouting QBs than I do, but he's not very good with making this argument about velocity. If he wants his opinion to have any fucking real meaning or value in QB assessment, he needs to compare some guys who AREN'T Drew Brees or Tom Brady whose velocity isn't the greatest. He doesn't have to pick a noodle arm assfuck like Tyler Palko or anybody like that, but you can't just go, "Bullshit! It doesn't matter because Drew Brees can do it!"
The average weak-armed QB prospect doesn't have the things that Drew Brees has in order to become successful in the NFL. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
Hey all. I was hoping my dead end football team would finally draft a QB but they did not. I decided that I would become a fan of whatever team was smart enough to draft Patrick Mahomes, the next great NFL QB.
I am now here to cheer on the Chiefs!!!
Hahahahaha, same here! Pleaded for my team to draft the kid, but would rather concede the season as a loss and hope for next years prospects...... [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mahomer:
Hahahahaha, same here! Pleaded for my team to draft the kid, but would rather concede the season as a loss and hope for next years prospects......
None of the QB's next year have Pat's talent. [Reply]
