Just like #ChiefsKingdom has always been there for me and my family, we want to be there for them.❤️
The @Chiefs have launched #KCStrong, an emergency response fund supporting victims and their families, violence prevention and mental health services, and first responders.… pic.twitter.com/sYMnPgCWL0
Friendly mod reminder, this thread is about yesterday's shooting. Not about gun control, gun laws, politics, or anything of that nature. If you need everyone to know what's wrong in this world and how you'd fix it, grab your megaphone and soapbox and take it to DC, thanks. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ghak99:
There's not enough rhythm in those rounds for me to believe it is an auto. That first pause is damn near impossible. I don't think I've ever pulled on one and got less than two and even then it was on a piece of shit mac.
Is that 13 rounds? We know there were at least two shooters involved, right? I don't know that that audio is good enough to tell the difference between two short barreled pistols, even if they were different caliber. I thought I read an article accounting for 4 rounds from one of the guns. If that's the case, it'd be really tough for the rest of the rounds to be from an auto assuming the retaliation shots overlapped any of the first shooters shots. I find the spinning account weird though as well, so who knows. Was the spinner the guy who got shot in the back? Did the spin happen after getting shot in the back? That would kind of make since if he turned to retaliate.
I really don't care if an auto was used and wouldn't be surprised if these idiots had one as it's a very cheap and easy modification. I just found it odd that people were assuming based on what I'm hearing and running the math on the number of shots fired.
I would imagine getting shot in the jaw may make you spin a little... [Reply]
Originally Posted by luv:
Probable Cause Statement and Complaint for both Miller and Mays. The Complaint for Miller is the Amended Complaint.
Mays' arraignment is scheduled for 1:00 today.
MAYS PC... via ChatGPT
The events leading up to the shooting, as described in the Mays PC document, unfolded as follows:
Location and Initial Encounter: The incident occurred near Pershing Road and Kessler Road during the Chiefs' Super Bowl Parade in Kansas City, Missouri. Lyndell Mays, along with Witness 9, were approached by a group of four males. One of the males in the group confronted Mays, asking him what he was looking at since they didn't recognize him. Mays informed Witness 9 that he did not know these individuals.
Tension Escalates: The situation escalated when it was observed that one of the individuals in the group had a firearm visible in his backpack. According to Witness 9, two individuals from the group then pulled out firearms from their backpacks. Witness 9 attempted to pull Mays away from the situation to leave.
Outbreak of Gunfire: As Witness 9 turned her back, she heard gunshots. Upon turning around, she saw the group shooting at Mays. Mays then pulled out his own pistol and returned fire. Witness 9 began to run away from the scene and, upon looking back, saw Mays fall to the ground, suffering from apparent gunshot wounds.
Lyndell Mays' Actions: Lyndell Mays initially provided a statement that was inconsistent with surveillance video evidence. Upon being confronted with the video evidence, Mays acknowledged that he pulled out his gun first and began firing at the group. He claimed to have targeted one of the individuals randomly out of fear for Witness 9’s life. Mays admitted to shooting first in the crowded area, which included children, and acknowledged that it was a mistake.
Surveillance Video Analysis: The surveillance video showed Mays getting into a verbal confrontation with the group, becoming aggressive, and eventually pulling out a handgun. He chased one individual who appeared to be running away unarmed, while the others in the group drew their firearms and shot in Mays' direction.
Aftermath: Following the incident, Mays was found suffering from gunshot wounds. A Glock 9mm handgun, which was later revealed to be stolen, was found near him. The incident resulted in 25 people being injured by gunfire and one fatality.
This sequence of events paints a picture of a rapidly escalating confrontation that turned violent, leading to tragic consequences. [Reply]
Originally Posted by luv:
Probable Cause Statement and Complaint for both Miller and Mays. The Complaint for Miller is the Amended Complaint.
Mays' arraignment is scheduled for 1:00 today.
Based on the "Miller PC" document, the events surrounding Dominic M. Miller's involvement in the shooting during the Chiefs' Super Bowl Parade in Kansas City, Missouri, on February 14, 2024, are as follows:
Location: The incident took place near Pershing Road and Kessler Road during the Chiefs' Super Bowl Parade.
Tension Escalates: Surveillance video revealed a verbal argument between two groups. Miller and two others approached one of the groups but didn't go all the way. As the confrontation escalated, Miller positioned himself strategically in the crowd, watching the argument unfold.
Outbreak of Gunfire: The situation turned violent when a member of one group produced a firearm and advanced towards an individual in the opposing group. Miller, who was positioned in the crowd, also drew a firearm and began shooting.
Miller's Actions: Miller initially claimed to be a bystander but later admitted to being armed and returning fire after being confronted with video evidence. He was seen chasing and shooting in a crowd, which included the deceased victim and other bystanders.
Aftermath: Miller was found with a gunshot wound and was tackled by a witness while fleeing. A firearm was recovered near him. The firearm Miller used was connected to the fatal shooting of a female victim.
Additional Details: The document also mentions Miller's interview at the hospital, where he initially provided a different account of the incident. It details the recovery of Miller's belongings and his identification by witnesses and surveillance footage. The incident resulted in multiple injuries and a fatality.
This sequence of events outlines the chaotic and tragic circumstances of the shooting, highlighting Miller's involvement and the subsequent police investigation. [Reply]
One of the men charged with murder following the Feb. 14 mass shooting at the Chiefs Super Bowl rally had just gotten off probation for pulling out a gun at a community center, according to court documents.
Lyndell Mays, 23, of Raytown, and Dominic M. Miller, 18, of Kansas City, each face a count of second-degree felony murder in connection with the parade shooting that killed a woman and injured 22 people. Mays and Miller were among those wounded.
According to municipal court documents, Mays had been charged with disorderly conduct in April 2021. A citation from the Belton Police Department says Mays “displayed a black handgun during a dispute while playing basketball” at the Belton Community Center, which caused people to fear for their safety and run out of the gym. Mays pleaded guilty on Feb. 8, 2022, and was placed on two years probation. [Reply]
I can't figure out if it's better or worse that this whole thing appears to be the result of complete idiots feeling pee pee hurt rather than someone who was intentionally trying to hurt a bunch of people. It's infuriating either way. [Reply]
A similar item has been posted about the gofundme, but the article includes some details about the argument starting with the eventual shooter looking at another group wrong. :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by siberian khatru:
Always makes me think of this scene (Language NSFW):
This is pretty much what happened at the parade.
Same as in the NWA movie when one guy trying to get Felicia is armed and they come out of the hotel room with overwhelming firepower. Except the idiot decided to shoot anyway. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaFace:
I can't figure out if it's better or worse that this whole thing appears to be the result of complete idiots feeling pee pee hurt rather than someone who was intentionally trying to hurt a bunch of people. It's infuriating either way.
It's better for people who want to protect any gun at any cost....there's an excuse. It's worse for those on the gun control side since if this is what happened, it can't really be stopped. [Reply]
A similar item has been posted about the gofundme, but the article includes some details about the argument starting with the eventual shooter looking at another group wrong. :-)
So according to his sister, he's not a homeboy. But we've got the community center gun incident, and him being the first to pull his gun in this incident, and this pic. Yeah, this guy's a wanna-be gangster who probably got rejected from gangs for being such a dipshit. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ku_jhawk23:
It's better for people who want to protect any gun at any cost....there's an excuse. It's worse for those on the gun control side since if this is what happened, it can't really be stopped.
This had absolutely nothing to do with gun control or lack of.
These idiots were already breaking the existing laws. Enacting more would have done nothing.
People need to stop looking for others to keep them safe. First thing you need to do wherever you are, parade, grocery store, chipotles, etc... Is look for and plan emergency exit strategy.
If you see anything that makes you feel uneasy move to a new location or leave completely. [Reply]
Originally Posted by frozenchief:
That would be an automatic weapon. The NFA defines a machine gun as any firearm that discharges more than 1 round per pull of the trigger. What you’ve described would be 2 rounds per1 pull of the trigger. A binary firearm, as built and advertised, would be similar to a bump stock.
Before someone chimes in on the subject, bump stocks are not fully automatic because they rely upon the recoil of the firearm to re-set the trigger after the discharge of 1 round. This makes your trigger pulls very rapid but it’s still one shot per round. Ironically, the Supreme Court is addressing this issue tomorrow, albeit on an agency/administrative law basis and not a 2A basis.
The sound from the video of the parade is quite consistent with a semi-auto in my not so humble opinion. I will also note though that Glock pistols are built in such a way that an automatic sear can be fitted onto their pistols to convert Glocks to a full auto pistol. Glock has stated there is no way to manufacture their firearms to make this impossible. This is unlike the vast majority of AR firearms sold in the US. They cannot be fitted for an automatic sear as manufactured. Someone with sufficient machining knowledge could machine parts that would accept a full auto sear and then insert one but for now, that capability is limited to those with the machining knowledge and ability or expensive 3d printers that can “print’ metal parts. Glock sears can be 3d printed from polymer in part because of their design and in part because pistols operate at significantly lower pressures than rifles.
Another reason to believe that this matter involved semi-automatic firearms: no charges regarding possession of unlicensed NFAs have been announced. Maybe that will come but I would have expected those charges to be filed if the firearms were truly fully automatic. And in a case like this, the charges would be federal charges. Given the federal government’s interest in prosecuting charges of unlicensed NFA items, the lack of charges thus far says to me that the firearms were semi-automatic. Maybe that will change and if it does, I will admit it. But for now, there is no reason to believe that the firearms are actual full auto.
I suggest looking up binary triggers and ATF legality! [Reply]
Originally Posted by srvy:
I suggest looking up binary triggers and ATF legality!
Already have because I've represented clients who were contacted by the ATF regarding their purchase of binary triggers, as well as clients who purchased 'oil traps,' suppressor kits, bump stocks, and forced re-set triggers. I've represented clients facing charges of possessing unregistered NFA items. I've read the ATF position papers on these various items, including how those positions have changed over the years as well as the myriad of legal briefs from a variety of parties in support of and in opposition to those changes. I'm on a first name basis with several ATF agents in my District, whether administrative, from representing people in the firearms business, or enforcement, from representing people under investigation or indictment, because of my work.
I get similar responses a fair amount. Or I get called a 'fudd'. There is a difference between my own personal opinions and my legal advice. My legal advice is generally based upon what I think is the best way to avoid undue scrutiny from Uncle Sam or other law enforcement groups. I give that advice irrespective of whether I think the law is good, just, constitutional, or wise. As one example, I'm not really sure why I need the government's permission to ingest a particular chemical or substance but I will certainly give advice to not purchase, possess, transport, manufacture, or distribute a substance that the government bans.
In this thread, some were speculating that the firearm used was a full auto and someone suggested a binary trigger, specifically as a way to get around the prohibition on fully automatic firearms and thus a potential explanation for the rapid string of shots. I did not agree with the speculation that the firearm was full auto (and since the firearm has been revealed to be a Taurus 92, I am correct) and I also believe that the binary triggers fall into a legal gray area if they do not cross the line. Part of the issue is that the term 'binary trigger,' like 'bump stock,' or 'forced reset trigger,' can be used to cover different items. Here's an ATF letter re: forced re-set trigger demonstrating that binary triggers can be acceptable but also showing that the term 'forced re-set triggers' has been applied to binary triggers:
Further, the previous discussion in this thread of binary triggers discussed the use of one pull of the trigger to discharge two cartridges: once during the regular pull and once during the release. Note that the above ATF letter quotes 18 USC 921(a)(23) to define a machine gun
"Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part
designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and
intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of
parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or
under the control of a person."
[Note that unlike a frame or receiver, the definition of machine gun specifically includes parts, which is why some guys in Central District of Florida were convicted of selling machine guns when they were selling small metal plates with lines etched on them for cutting. The government argued that if the cards were cut along the etched lines, the resulting parts could be used to convert a semi-automatic firearm into an automatic firearm. Forget the fact that even the ATF could not make the resulting 'parts' work. The intent was sufficient to justify a conviction.]
Binary triggers that fire two shots based upon two pulls of the trigger are thus not machine guns. Binary triggers that fire two shots based upon one pull of the trigger are machine guns. To the extent that there is confusion over the two, well, my legal advice would be to stay away from anything that could put you in the cross-hairs of the ATF. Or you could end up like this guy who is trying to argue that his triggers are not machine guns:
I don't defend stuff like that as I have no interest in the inaccurate spraying of ammo rapidly. But it's out there and available and lawful in 32 states. Just was a comment as to possibility of sounding like automatic fire. I have listened to all the available posted stuff and I didn't think is was automatic rounds going off but who knows?
After the SuperBowl Nextdoor app lit up with machine gun fire reports by posters, most were fireworks. [Reply]
