I never said that, and I’m NOT measuring solely by playoff wins. However, there IS a correct answer to the question “What is the object of the game?” And that correct answer is “To Win.”
Accordingly, WINS - if proportional to the STATS being compared with – should carry greater weight. It’s another example of the classic dichotomy “Content vs Form,” yielding the same result as always, ”WHAT you do matters more than HOW you do it.”
“Disingenuous?!”
What?!?!
I STATED, CLEAR AS A BELL: “Rodgers has significantly better stats and four MVP awards.” I factored Rodgers’ big stats/awards advantage into my assessment.
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Individual awards and stats
RODGERS: 4 NFL MVPs, SB MVP, 4 All-Pro, 10 Pro Bowls and league leaders ELWAY: NFL MVP, SB MVP, 1 All-Pro, 9 Pro-Bowls. The day he retired, Elway had won more games, and started more Super Bowls (5) than any QB ever
Further, Rodger's individual statistics like completion % and TD passes are all point for point - better than Elway’s, often by wide margins. RELEVANT EXAMPLE: Jolly Rodgers’ career QBRating is 102.9, Elway’s 79.9.
Team victories and accomplishments
JOHN ELWAY wishes to point out that ^^^^^^ Rodgers’ individual awards and stats above appear to have done very little to win games for his team, because ..…
THIS WEEK – Nov 18-25, 2024 – Elway and Rodgers have basically IDENTICAL career W-L records:
.. . . . . .. .. .W .. L . T
J.Elway ..162 .89 .1
Rodgers .162 .93 .1
RODGERS: 11-10 playoff record, with 6 ‘one-and-dones’ in 11 playoff seasons; 1-4 W-L in NFCCGs and 1 Super Bowl… ELWAY: 14-7 playoff record, with 4 ‘one-and-dones’ in 10 playoff seasons; 5-2 W-L in AFCCGs and 5 Super Bowls, 2 wins.
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MY OPINION/CONCLUSION IS:
American football is a TEAM sport. Individual stats and honors can be exciting examples of a players’ greatness, and there were many such examples in Aaron Rodgers time with the Packers. But, as stated, when you're on the field, the goal must only be to win games, not rack up statistics.
For the Packers, having been led for 17 years by as uniquely talented a quarterback as Aaron Rodgers, there were too few memorable victories, and not enough landmark moments to remember for the Green Bay Packers and their fans.
It should be known that this was a mild expression of the frustration the Packers fan-base has endured. Other fans, when expressing this kind of frustration, or ranking players this way, will unabashedly label certain players and even teams “CHOKE-ARTISTS.”
And the list is a long one: Tony Romo, Philip Rivers, the Buffalo Bills, Minnesota Vikings, even Peyton Manning, Fran Tarkenton, The Detroit Lions, the Cleveland Browns, even Aaron Rodgers
So Aaron Rodgers, replete with the awards and statistics spoken of, you should understand it could have been worse.
.
.
So Bill Russell was (significantly) better than Jordan, and Eli Manning mops the floor with Marino. Got it.
This is weak stuff.
If Elway had retired two years earlier, would you have declared him a choke artist? Something tells me the goalposts would shift to "it wasn't his fault." As most Denver fans claim. Interesting that Elway allegedly carried the team in the early days, but none of you acknowledge that a loaded team carried him when he was on his way out the door.
Do you actually think Rodgers couldn't outduel Tony Eason and Bernie Kosar? Or win with the '97-98 Broncos rosters? [Reply]
Originally Posted by New World Order:
No one outside of Denver thinks Elway is better than Rodgers
You got to realize knucklehead, anybody can use Google these days, So you shouldn't try to slide in lies like those to people like me... Honestly, it just makes me laugh.
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
So Bill Russell was (significantly) better than Jordan, and Eli Manning mops the floor with Marino. Got it.
This is weak stuff.
If Elway had retired two years earlier, would you have declared him a choke artist? Something tells me the goalposts would shift to "it wasn't his fault." As most Denver fans claim. Interesting that Elway allegedly carried the team in the early days, but none of you acknowledge that a loaded team carried him when he was on his way out the door.
Do you actually think Rodgers couldn't outduel Tony Eason and Bernie Kosar? Or win with the '97-98 Broncos rosters?
Well, let's see genius: Bill Russell and Michael Jordan play VERY different positions ..... Not to mention they play a VERY different sport than these quarterbacks.
Geez, what the f is wrong with you people?! [Reply]
Originally Posted by BroncoBuff:
1) Tom Brady
2) Patrick Mahomes
3) Joe Montana
4) Peyton Manning
5) Drew Brees
6) John Elway
7) Aaron Rodgers
8) Roger Staubach
9) Brett Favre
10) Dan Marino
Rodgers legacy is getting hurt bc of his off field stuff as well as the Jets fiasco.
Rodgers and Marino are 2 of the most talented QB’s I’ve ever seen. Rodgers was Mahomes before Mahomes. He did all of the arm angle and crazy throws.
Marino has the best season a QB has ever had. His 1984 season cannot be beat. Throwing 5k yards and 48 TD’s in that era is one of the most impressive feats in NFL history. He’s also the guy Mahomes keeps passing when he’s breaking records. [Reply]
Gosh, isn't anybody going to disagree with my newly updated top 10 quarterbacks????? (Remember, I only rank post-merger players...the world changed when 26, 28, 31, 32 teams began interplay)
You guys really oughta look at my post three or four above here comparing Elway and Rodgers ... It's relatively comprehensive and sewn up tight with logic. RaidersCellar is free to disagree, to stress individual greatness despite the fact football is a team game ... but most of you could really learn something looking at that post. It's sewn up tight, with the kind of logic I learned at the University of Colorado, UCLA law school and Cal-State LA social psychology Masters.
So call me stupid if you insist, it's just nobody with half a brain would agree with you.
I even impressed myself a bit with the following logic: They racked up identical career W-L records, but all The greatness of Roger's truly great skills, couldn't seem to get him deep into the playoffs More than that one time.......... [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Rodgers legacy is getting hurt bc of his off field stuff as well as the Jets fiasco.
Rodgers and Marino are 2 of the most talented QB’s I’ve ever seen. Rodgers was Mahomes before Mahomes. He did all of the arm angle and crazy throws.
I agree, I really do, 100% ... It's just that what we're describing as "talent" doesn't appear to be something that pushes teams forward into postseason success. At least not with these quarterbacks. As great as Rodgers is, it really wouldn't be a huge stretch to call him.... a choker. He's way too good to rack up those postseason results and numbers.....
But what about your young man there, the Gridiron Messiah?
15-3 playoff record, 6 for 6 playing home field Ch'ship games?!
Crikey, that is out.of.this.world!
I wouldn't even object if you wanted to debate that he's the best quarterback who ever played the game! I wouldn't agree with you (after all, 2 of the 3 in his 15-3 record were losses to Brady...) but holy Saviour anyhow, Batman ....
I think I had to be in a place like this to look at those accomplishments from the right angle ... So I guess I have you guys to thank for that. [Reply]
Mahomes has played 18 postseason games. He’s the most efficient QB in postseason history with 41 TD’s/8 INT’s with a 105 passer rating. That is truly remarkable.
He’s also the only QB ever with a winning record when being down 10 points.
The most ridiculous stat is that Tom Brady is the only QB who has ever beaten Mahomes in regulation of a postseason game. [Reply]
Originally Posted by New World Order:
Elway will be Buff's number 5 next week.
He could be number 1 by year's end!!!!
I'll tell you the truth, I'm not even that big an Elway fan. I love him, but my eyes are wide open to his weaknesses. He could be frustratingly inaccurate for long stretches of games, usually first halfs.
Most amazing football things he ever did were his first 6 years as GM..... from literally out of the Josh McDaniels ashes, first he built the best offense of all time, then spun on a dime, rebuilt on the fly and created one of the three or four best defenses the past quarter century (manning didn't help). Freaking astonishing.
The next 4-5 years though ... whiff whiff whiff whiff whiff, on QBs and head coaches. I think those whiffs really took the life out of him. It's theorized that high achievers in fields suffer greatly when they run into their first real failures. If that's true, he's the poster child.
I mentioned I worked in Broncos Media relations in 84 and 85 ... I'll tell you guys a story you might like - he was crazy irritated by Marino's numbers. I mean over-freaking-wraught. That was the core of his feuding and fighting with Reeves, his anger and insecurity at Marino's numbers. I actually grew some respect for Reeves and Shanahan not spilling the beans about his insecurity to the media....
And New World Order - why are you so dead certain i'm propping Elway like that ... If you read even one of my posts the last hour, you'd know it's Mahomes I'm propping now. [Reply]
Originally Posted by PHOG:
That would be five AFCCG hosted, earlier this year we went to Baltimore and smacked them around after doing the same to Buffalo the week before.
