Originally Posted by DRM08:
Nobody wants to admit Mr. Perfect Fred Warner flat out got beat by Mahomes at the beginning of this play. If it was Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen, people would be raving about the athleticism of the QB to make Fred Warner look bad.
Fred Warner is still in his prime and will be in the HOF. He is one of the best LB in the league. Making him look foolish warrants praise.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Been enjoying this for a couple years now.
Embrace the hate, fellas. Wear the black hat with pride!
Fuck 'em all.
Yeah, its so special that we suffered so many years of bad football and crushing playoff losses that now we get to share this dynasty in real time together. :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
Yeah, its so special that we suffered so many years of bad football and crushing playoff losses that now we get to share this dynasty in real time together. :-)
I will always hate Scott Pioli.
But one thing - the ONE thing he did - was the year the season ticket holder gift was a jersey. And on that jersey is a little 'STH' patch in the corner.
I wear that sucker every time I go to Arrowhead (I'm the guy in the Lanier). And every time I see someone with that little STH badge on their jersey I know that's another guy who's been through the wars with me.
Because if you got that jersey back when Pioli was running this shit, you EARNED this.
Sit a few plays out here and there, Swifties. Y'all don't have the sweat equity yet... [Reply]
Originally Posted by RedinTexas:
Maybe it's because players for the opponents often go after those superstars in an attempt to hurt them at every opportunity. Players like Mahomes are targeted just to get them out of the game. When you're some run of the mill crappy QB, they want you to stay in the game, so they're not targeting you for extra roughness.
I mean, sure okay. it's not new stuff. Early in Mahomes' career, 2019 I think, it was all over the various football shows that defenses needed to hit Mahomes to beat the Chiefs, right? Nothing new there. NOR did exactly that to Favre in the playoffs, right? Blew him right out of his shoes on a running play when he had his head turned. No flags. Basically ended his career right there. Something similar happened to Kurt Warner I think.
But brady got rules changed for him. Brady got the strike zone. No hitting below the knees, period. No touching of the head, period. Can't throw the Qb to the ground. Can't land with your 'full body weight' on the QB. Et cetera.
Which has benefitted all QBs now, including Pat. Does Pat get the same level of kid glove treatment that Brady did? Maybe not. But he is protected in ways that Baker isn't, for example.
And just to be clear, I HATE a large percentage of the RTP/unnecessary roughness flags. I get the league has to protect QBs, but a lot of these flags are plain ridiculous, and they can/have changed the outcomes of important games.
But we are here. And the Chiefs/Pat have benefitted for the most part. More than a lot of QBs, as you said. Not going to complain about that, but there's been a lot of flags thrown in favor of KC where I just shook my head at the silliness of it all. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
I mean, sure okay. it's not new stuff. Early in Mahomes' career, 2019 I think, it was all over the various football shows that defenses needed to hit Mahomes to beat the Chiefs, right? Nothing new there. NOR did exactly that to Favre in the playoffs, right? Blew him right out of his shoes on a running play when he had his head turned. No flags. Basically ended his career right there. Something similar happened to Kurt Warner I think.
But brady got rules changed for him. Brady got the strike zone. No hitting below the knees, period. No touching of the head, period. Can't throw the Qb to the ground. Can't land with your 'full body weight' on the QB. Et cetera.
Which has benefitted all QBs now, including Pat. Does Pat get the same level of kid glove treatment that Brady did? Maybe not. But he is protected in ways that Baker isn't, for example.
And just to be clear, I HATE a large percentage of the RTP/unnecessary roughness flags. I get the league has to protect QBs, but a lot of these flags are plain ridiculous, and they can/have changed the outcomes of important games.
But we are here. And the Chiefs/Pat have benefitted for the most part. More than a lot of QBs, as you said. Not going to complain about that, but there's been a lot of flags thrown in favor of KC where I just shook my head at the silliness of it all.
I just can't get too worked up about the implementation of these rules. Maybe it's because I'm getting older, but maybe it's because I lived through the godawful implementation of the "in the grasp" rule for protecting QBs. I don't think they can possibly surpass the idiocy that rule gave us across the league. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Maybe. I confess I haven't watched every single Mahomes or Josh Allen game. And certainly I've never bothered to count up every bad call/non-call ever in their respective games. If there's a place where those stats are available I might be interested in taking a look around to see how they stack up.
My point was that the truly elite/special players that become the face of their leagues have always gotten special treatment, in any sport, since the beginning of time. It's practically a rule.
Mahomes has had more TD’s taken off the board from penalties than any QB in the last 6 years. If that’s special treatment, it sure doesn’t match up very well with what you’re suggesting.
Below is a list of Roughing the Passer flags for recent QB’s. Funny enough Carson Wentz is at the top of the list from his earlier years. Your guy Mayfield is slightly above Mahomes on the list. Josh Allen is very high on the list even though Buffalo fans whine about the refs a lot:
0.316 per game for Carson Wentz
0.315 per game for Josh Allen
0.288 per game for Jared Goff
0.266 per game for Ryan Tannehill
0.259 per game for Kirk Cousins
0.251 per game for Matt Ryan
0.250 per game for Deshaun Watson
0.241 per game for Jimmy Grapes
0.239 per game for Justin Fields
0.231 per game for Gardner Minshew
0.230 per game for Baker Mayfield
0.229 per game for Cam Newton
0.225 per game for Patrick Mahomes
0.220 per game for Russell Wilson
0.214 per game for Jacoby Brissett
0.203 per game for Justin Herbert
0.200 per game for Matt Stafford
0.197 per game for Dak Prescott
0.195 per game for Geno Smith
0.182 per game for Aaron Rodgers
0.182 per game for Joe Burrow
0.179 per game for Tua Tagovailoa
0.158 per game for Lamar Jackson
0.139 per game for Derek Carr
Derek Carr at the bottom of the list is interesting considering the bogus RTP on Chris Jones that caused the Arrowhead crowd to boo the refs for 30 minutes straight. Lol [Reply]
Originally Posted by DRM08:
Mahomes has had more TD’s taken off the board from penalties than any QB in the last 6 years. If that’s special treatment, it sure doesn’t match up very well with what you’re suggesting.
Below is a list of Roughing the Passer flags for recent QB’s. Funny enough Carson Wentz is at the top of the list from his earlier years. Your guy Mayfield is slightly above Mahomes on the list. Josh Allen is very high on the list even though Buffalo fans whine about the refs a lot:
0.316 per game for Carson Wentz
0.315 per game for Josh Allen
0.288 per game for Jared Goff
0.266 per game for Ryan Tannehill
0.259 per game for Kirk Cousins
0.251 per game for Matt Ryan
0.250 per game for Deshaun Watson
0.241 per game for Jimmy Grapes
0.239 per game for Justin Fields
0.231 per game for Gardner Minshew
0.230 per game for Baker Mayfield
0.229 per game for Cam Newton
0.225 per game for Patrick Mahomes
0.220 per game for Russell Wilson
0.214 per game for Jacoby Brissett
0.203 per game for Justin Herbert
0.200 per game for Matt Stafford
0.197 per game for Dak Prescott
0.195 per game for Geno Smith
0.182 per game for Aaron Rodgers
0.182 per game for Joe Burrow
0.179 per game for Tua Tagovailoa
0.158 per game for Lamar Jackson
0.139 per game for Derek Carr
Derek Carr at the bottom of the list is interesting considering the bogus RTP on Chris Jones that caused the Arrowhead crowd to boo the refs for 30 minutes straight. Lol
Where did you find those stats?
That was pretty funny. Though in the moment I was pretty pissed they threw that flag against CJ. Complete BS. But the crowd reaction was purely priceless.
Tbf, I thought we were also talking about unnecessary roughness flags, like when the QB is running with the ball and gets a flag when he gets hit as he goes out of bounds or as he's sliding or whatever. And I wasn't thinking just about the total number of flags, but the circumstances/context of them, but whatever.
I think Pat gets a lot of protection, you may not. But I also think Qbs in general are overly protected in the new kinder gentler NFL. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Where did you find those stats?
That was pretty funny. Though in the moment I was pretty pissed they threw that flag against CJ. Complete BS. But the crowd reaction was purely priceless.
Tbf, I thought we were also talking about unnecessary roughness flags, like when the QB is running with the ball and gets a flag when he gets hit as he goes out of bounds or as he's sliding or whatever. And I wasn't thinking just about the total number of flags, but the circumstances/context of them, but whatever.
I think Pat gets a lot of protection, you may not. But I also think Qbs in general are overly protected in the new kinder gentler NFL.
They have a “per game” column where you can sort it. Tom Brady is actually very low on the list, probably due to how fast he would get rid of the ball. I also remember a game against the Bears when Tom immediately went to the ground as soon as he saw pass rushers coming toward him. Smart to avoid the hits. [Reply]
They have a “per game” column where you can sort it. Tom Brady is actually very low on the list, probably due to how fast he would get rid of the ball. I also remember a game against the Bears when Tom immediately went to the ground as soon as he saw pass rushers coming toward him. Smart to avoid the hits.
Thx. Might have a look around in there later.
Yeah, Tom started doing the Payton 'fetal position' thing towards the end of his career. Saved him some beatings for sure. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
And as some noted at the time, MASSIVE credit to Kareem Hunt for playing through the whistle there.
Some guys just get it. Some receivers mesh really well with Mahomes because the play is never dead and they're just constantly working through the play because he'll make something crazy happen.
This is an extension of that. Did Hunt shove that dude thinking he'd clear him OOB and open a lane for Mahomes to cut back inside? Hell, I don't know, but I kinda doubt it. Nobody expects that sort of thing. But that was the angle he had to throw any sort of legal block so he threw it. Mahomes and his vision did the rest.
I say this to the kids I coach in both baseball and football - there's ALWAYS someplace to be on a play. There's ALWAYS something to do. And if you're spectating, you're doing it wrong. I don't know that Hunt had any grand design there, but he was looking for work ("head on a swivel!") and the work he found was just shoving the dude in front of him as hard as he could.
He played to the whistle and it made a massive play for his QB.
Kareem kicked that linebacker out to the edge of the hallway like he was a defenseless biatch. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Tbf, I thought we were also talking about unnecessary roughness flags, like when the QB is running with the ball and gets a flag when he gets hit as he goes out of bounds or as he's sliding or whatever. And I wasn't thinking just about the total number of flags, but the circumstances/context of them, but whatever.
I think Pat gets a lot of protection, you may not. But I also think Qbs in general are overly protected in the new kinder gentler NFL.
If he's getting a lot of protection, the throat punch on Sunday should have been penalized. Ref was standing right there watching it happen, lol
Do you remember the recent play (Baltimore) where Mahomes got hit out of bounds? Zero flag on the defense. Chiefs player got in trouble for responding to that cheap shot. He got penalized and fined. Yet the Baltimore defense got away scott-free with the cheap hit out of bounds. No penalty, no fine. Sounds like encouragement from the league to keep doing it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DRM08:
If he's getting a lot of protection, the throat punch on Sunday should have been penalized. Ref was standing right there watching it happen, lol
Do you remember the recent play (Baltimore) where Mahomes got hit out of bounds? Zero flag on the defense. Chiefs player got in trouble for responding to that cheap shot. He got penalized and fined. Yet the Baltimore defense got away scott-free with the cheap hit out of bounds. No penalty, no fine. Sounds like encouragement from the league to keep doing it.
Wasn't there another one a year or two ago when we played HOU and their safety (or whoever) came in on a blitz and literally punched Pat in the helmet, after he already got rid of the ball? Ref was standing right behind Pat about 7 yards? No flag, of course.
I never said Pat gets all the flags. Just that he gets a lot of flags. I mean, if you're saying he should get every possible flag, idk what to tell you. No one gets them all. But I've watched Pat get flags when it was a legal hit or when it should've probably been a non-call.
And a lot of flags, whether Pat is involved or not, are nothing more than lovetaps compared to what QBs used to deal with. Hell, that one against us in the AFCG vs. NE when CJ slapped his hand down on Brady's shoulder still ticks me off. [Reply]
A lot of flags, whether Pat is involved or not, are nothing more than lovetaps compared to what QBs used to deal with. Hell, that one against us in the AFCG vs. NE when CJ slapped his hand down on Brady's shoulder still ticks me off.
It's eventually gonna turn into flag football. The owners are gonna get fed up with the huge guaranteed money for injured players. Salaries & guaranteed money have gone up enormously from the old days, way more than inflation in the regular economy over the last 30+ years. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DRM08:
It's eventually gonna turn into flag football. The owners are gonna get fed up with the huge guaranteed money for injured players. Salaries & guaranteed money have gone up enormously from the old days, way more than inflation in the regular economy over the last 30+ years.
Yeah, it's pretty much what I've been thinking for a couple three years now. Tbh, if not for Mahomes and a select few other players like Travis, I might not even be watching football at this point. By the time Pat retires I probably will step back from the NFL flag football experience. [Reply]
